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06-13-2011, 12:44 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thomas Quote
Pål, why would the first lens replaced be what is arguably the best of the current line up? A new, fast 90-100mm seems a better choice.
Because the prototype shown is apparently an F:4 lens; I cannot see another possibility for a short tele with this maximum aperture except a macro lens. There may be various resons for releasing such a lens; some possibilities are: the current one is expensive to manufacture. A weather sealed macro lens is ideal for the outdoor market the 645D is targeted at. The current lens is har to make weathersealed with its very long focus throw. Also impossible to be SDM with the current design. I expect a possible new version to be an IF lens making it easy to weather seal and to use SDM AF-drive....

06-13-2011, 01:29 PM   #17
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Exactly Ron. Yet their main store in Toronto is an excellent resource for Pentax users, at least was the last time I was there. I guess some of these chains give the regional managers a bit of leeway in what they choose to stock.
06-13-2011, 03:13 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Because the prototype shown is apparently an F:4 lens; I cannot see another possibility for a short tele with this maximum aperture except a macro lens. There may be various resons for releasing such a lens; some possibilities are: the current one is expensive to manufacture. A weather sealed macro lens is ideal for the outdoor market the 645D is targeted at. The current lens is har to make weathersealed with its very long focus throw. Also impossible to be SDM with the current design. I expect a possible new version to be an IF lens making it easy to weather seal and to use SDM AF-drive....
What makes you think it's f/4? The picture I saw was of a large diameter lens whose size appeared similar to the 67 105
06-13-2011, 06:23 PM   #19
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If it is F4, the assumption makes sense. But do you know or see something we do not, or what?

06-13-2011, 08:50 PM   #20
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A few comments:

Not long ago, Pentax USA mentioned to a few of us that the original FA 645 lenses for the most part are discontinued and what might be seen world wide is either old stock or finishing up putting together the rest of the newly manufactured parts for some of these lenses...but after that it's done. Of course even if this info was correct at the time (less than 6 months ago...things may have changed with Pentax Japan. My gut feeling is most of the FA line is "done"....but I could be wrong.

As Thomas mentioned, the prototype shown of the new 90-100mm lens had a front dismeter that seemed anything but a f4 lens. Of course anything is possible and if it was f4...then of course it's probably a macro. If the front element is any indication, it may be a new ultra fast portrait lens...maybe f2? As Pal indicated, a WR macro lens would fit into the scheme of things...BUT...if there was one FA lenses still plentiful on the market both new and used....it's the FA 120 f4 645 macro. Something tells me if the new lens is a f4 macro...it will be very expensive and although it will have WR...I would suspect the FA 120 f4 macro would be the first choice of new 645D owners. So guess we'll have to wait and see.

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06-13-2011, 09:08 PM   #21
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If they release a macro, I would imaging it would be a 90mm--the same angle of view as a 120mm on a 645 film camera.

Looking at the size of a front element is a difficult way of estimating maximum aperture. The front element design is based on angle of view/format (Pentax has been designing their digital lenses to cover 645), the degree of mechanical vignetting the designer wants, and the constraints of the type of lens design itself.
06-14-2011, 06:42 AM   #22
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I am actually alright with what is available for us at the moment. Yes new line up would be tremendously appreciated, but if the pricing of the new 25 mm is of any indication to what is to come from now on, I am not so sure if I would be interested. Since I hardly ever use auto focusing, A glasses and it's line up is good enough buy me. I like some of 67 glasses even better.
06-14-2011, 12:58 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by DandA Quote
As Thomas mentioned, the prototype shown of the new 90-100mm lens had a front dismeter that seemed anything but a f4 lens. Of course anything is possible and if it was f4...then of course it's probably a macro. If the front element is any indication, it may be a new ultra fast portrait lens...maybe f2?
Dave
Have you seen another prototype than I? This one does definitely not have a large front element!

It has the same size and the same front diametre as the FA 120/4 Macro. You can also see the inner lens tubus in the front element photo - just like on the FA 120 Macro suggesting that it isn't a inner focusing design after all. However, the lens tubuses are different in arrangement from the FA lens - the lens body is also fatter - suggesting a redesign of the focusing mechanism. Probably with less focusing throw. It can be seen from the photo that the inner lens tubus will extend from the outer one (where the hood is fixed) when close focusing; this is definitely a macro lens.

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Last edited by Pål Jensen; 06-14-2011 at 01:17 PM.
06-14-2011, 01:29 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Have you seen another prototype than I? This one does definitely not have a large front element!

It has the same size and the same front diametre as the FA 120/4 Macro. You can also see the inner lens tubus in the front element photo - just like on the FA 120 Macro suggesting that it isn't a inner focusing design after all. However, the lens tubuses are different in arrangement from the FA lens - the lens body is also fatter - suggesting a redesign of the focusing mechanism. Probably with less focusing throw. It can be seen from the photo that the inner lens tubus will extend from the outer one (where the hood is fixed) when close focusing; this is definitely a macro lens.
The little sign loosely translate to: "For 645D use, medium telephoto"
06-14-2011, 09:09 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Have you seen another prototype than I? This one does definitely not have a large front element!

It has the same size and the same front diametre as the FA 120/4 Macro. You can also see the inner lens tubus in the front element photo - just like on the FA 120 Macro suggesting that it isn't a inner focusing design after all. However, the lens tubuses are different in arrangement from the FA lens - the lens body is also fatter - suggesting a redesign of the focusing mechanism. Probably with less focusing throw. It can be seen from the photo that the inner lens tubus will extend from the outer one (where the hood is fixed) when close focusing; this is definitely a macro lens.
Pal, A while back I was send a pic of a Pentax 645 prototype mid range telephoto, which was of a very different design that the image you posted (which I've also previously seen). It had a large front doameter element but the body of the lens seemed to be about the same or slightly thinner than your pic. My previous comments were of the first pic I was sent...which I may or may not still have. I completely agree with your assessment of the lens you pictured and it does appear to have a relatively modest front diameter element and the construction and characteristics you described. My personal feeling is although Pentax probably would like to release a new WR macro to go with the system...I almost believe a fast portrait lens (an f2) might serve them better...bringing another dimension to the 645D aside from their landscape/nature marketing. Anyhow, time will tell and its all interesting.

Dave
06-21-2011, 09:38 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by mstratil Quote
I understand that they may have discontinued the 400mm because they're going to produce a new digital version. But if so, when?
1. They discontinued everything - in spring 2009. Pentax closed plant in Japan that manufactured little amounts of 645/67 cameras and lenses, and also little amounts of K-mount lenses (for example 31-43-77 Limited). Because of world financial crysis.

2. They moved manufacturing of lenses to Vietnam many years ago, but not all the line. Pentax started to produce all their lenses in new place - after spring 2009. Users from all over the world - reported about 31-43-77 Limited produced in Vietnam. And several users - reported about 645 FA 75/2,8 produced in Vietnam.
Because Pentax need to complete 645NII "kit".
It was first Pentax MF lens produced in Vietnam, and only one lens from roadmap, as I remember.

3. They started Japan sales in June 2011 with only one lens - 645 DFA 55/2,8. And they said, that 645D is first of all - a "gift" for Pentax MF lens owners. But after 645D success in Japan and from December 2010 in America - they informed us in February 2011, that they will start to produce all previous Pentax 645 FA lenses in Vietnam. All the roadmap: 14 lenses 645 FA, 2 lenses DFA and so on.
It is a great news for many people, who want's to buy lenses not from second-hand market, but "new in box".

4. They started European sales of 645D in April 2011. And they said that from this moment - we can order every lens form roadmap. For example, our Russian official distributor was in the same situation as other distributors - they stoped active sales of MF Pentax lenses one or two yeras ago and until April 2011 - has nothing "in stock". But since April 2011 - they redsigned their site: all 645 FA lenses are not marked "discontinued" now. One of my new friends from Russian 645D community - had allready ordered 645 DFA 25/4 and 645 FA 33-55/4,5. Wating period - is several weeks, nearly one month. But it means, that Pentax really started to produce all 645 FA lenses in Vietnam.

5. As you can see from the roadmap - there is no "new redesigned" 645 DFA 400mm lens in it. But there is "old good" 645 FA 400/5,6 in it. You can order it nowadays, because Pentax had stareted to produce all 645 FA lenses again.
I think that it is very hard to redesigne all 14 FA lenses - in one moment. And may be they dont want to do it just now. But they talk about one originally new DFA lens every year. It is very good movement. 55/2,8 in 2010, 25/4 in 2011, something like ~100mm in 2012, and two main zooms in 2013-2014.

6. You must understand that during film era - Pentax introduced 13 original non-autofocus 645 lenses from 1984 (645 camera) to 1997 (645N camera). Average level was: one lens per year. Of course they did not marketed lenses in "one per year" schedule, but average speed of innovations - was the same.
06-22-2011, 07:58 AM   #27
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thanks for sharing the information !
06-22-2011, 11:06 AM   #28
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mannager,

Thank you for clarifying the current 645 lens situation. Just curious, is the 645D also made in Vietnam, or does Pentax maintain a small manufacturing facility in Japan for high end products?
06-22-2011, 11:29 AM   #29
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assembled in Philippines !

-Linus-
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM   #30
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Original Poster
Great info

Managger,

Thanks for a very helpful post. This has given me the kind of perspective I was seeking.

Mike
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