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11-25-2011, 02:14 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Warped Quote
I could easily have a mid-life crisis and blown ~$10K or more on a new jetski or motorbike, or an overseas holiday.
You think they should promote it as the ultimate "mid-life-crisis"-solving tool?

Post a picture to give some idea about that, since there are lots of 40-ish man that are considdering what to do about their upcoming "mid-life".

11-25-2011, 06:14 AM   #17
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I've owned my 645d for about nine months. Back in the film days I shot with both large and medium format. My MF camera of choice was the Pentax 645n, hence I acquired a substantial kit of lenses. Moving on to digital I shot Canon for a number of years, most recently a 5D2.

When I decided to move back to Pentax and the 645d, I did so knowing full well that it had some limitations compared to Canon and Nikon DSLRs. But my objective is capturing scenes with large files for mural size gallery prints. I can now do that with a single frame from a 645d, and stitching multiple frames for really large scale panoramas is not a problem. It could be done with my 5D2 with some effort but certainly not with the ease of the 645d.

I've treked for 3-5 days with other systems in the past and the 645d has proven to be far more rewarding in actual use than attempting the same thing with a large or medium format film system. I can't imagine doing this with a Leica S-2 much less some of the other MFD systems on the market whereas the Pentax seems to exude an aura of "lets go, I'm ready".

Also it is worth repeating that Pentax 645 and 67 film cameras were, for the most part, used as field cameras, not studio or wedding photography cameras (although certainly some were used for those functions). The 645d was launched as a successor to those cameras.

In terms of ergonomics, ruggedness and reliability, I have no complaints so far, whatsoever. It's also worth noting that as for processing speed, if you shoot and write to one card at a time and turn off RAW + JPG, (use RAW only) the write time is dramatically speeded up. And there have been no serious performance or reliability issues with the 645d that I am aware of. Plain and simple, they just work and the files look incredible.
11-27-2011, 03:00 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
I've owned my 645d for about nine months. Back in the film days I shot with both large and medium format. My MF camera of choice was the Pentax 645n, hence I acquired a substantial kit of lenses. Moving on to digital I shot Canon for a number of years, most recently a 5D2.

When I decided to move back to Pentax and the 645d, I did so knowing full well that it had some limitations compared to Canon and Nikon DSLRs. But my objective is capturing scenes with large files for mural size gallery prints. I can now do that with a single frame from a 645d, and stitching multiple frames for really large scale panoramas is not a problem. It could be done with my 5D2 with some effort but certainly not with the ease of the 645d.

I've treked for 3-5 days with other systems in the past and the 645d has proven to be far more rewarding in actual use than attempting the same thing with a large or medium format film system. I can't imagine doing this with a Leica S-2 much less some of the other MFD systems on the market whereas the Pentax seems to exude an aura of "lets go, I'm ready".

Also it is worth repeating that Pentax 645 and 67 film cameras were, for the most part, used as field cameras, not studio or wedding photography cameras (although certainly some were used for those functions). The 645d was launched as a successor to those cameras.

In terms of ergonomics, ruggedness and reliability, I have no complaints so far, whatsoever. It's also worth noting that as for processing speed, if you shoot and write to one card at a time and turn off RAW + JPG, (use RAW only) the write time is dramatically speeded up. And there have been no serious performance or reliability issues with the 645d that I am aware of. Plain and simple, they just work and the files look incredible.
Good to read. How many pictures have you taken in those 9 months? I wonder if there is a 645D going to be used for that 50.000 shots or even more.
11-28-2011, 09:14 AM   #19
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I haven't tracked the number but I would guess in the 3-4K range. I have a K-5 for 'grab shooting' or situations where the 645D is less appropriate. I'm not really concerned about the 50K number that Pentax states as life expectancy for the shutter. I think they are probably being somewhat conservative and a shutter replacement at 50-100K shouldn't break the bank for a working professional photographer.

12-02-2011, 07:43 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by sanzari Quote
I have just joined in the hope that I might see enough noise and be convinced that the 645D is alive and kicking and in use.

There is some argument that the real comments come from those who are not on the forum but I am not looking for unbiased opinion, I would like to hear from the Pentaxians !!!

Apart from the price and weather seal I am trying to work out the longevity of this product. Its almost the same position as a Leica S2. Kodak sensor (just sold) no more than 3 new lenses apart from a adaptor solution, company changing hands, 5 years to come to market, update is a fork lift upgrade, no real know 2nd hand market or value yet.

I so want to buy one of these babies, but am convinced that a second hand PhaseOne Back with 31 mil pixels will provide greater longevity, residual and the ability to upgrade if prices level off for only an extra couple of 1000 pounds.

I so want Pentax to survive, I had an ME Super and always missed the Pentax until the K5 - but alas I am a Nikon shooter and so looking for more quality for landscape, but the £6000 or $10,000 for the camera seems a high risk
strategy.

No support for second body for a pro shooter (is this really a high end consumer product), limited lens access, new lenses are priced above true value compared to other lens manufactures.

Sorry that my first post is a request for info, but it is the reason I joined the forum.

Any ideas and thoughts from the collective, are the photos really worth it, i saw the Nikon D3X comparison and it was close, but in real use, future proof anyone got thoughts and ideas on this ?
Any Pentax 645 lenses, manual or autofocus, will work. 6X7 lenses will also work with an adapter. There does not seem to be any shortage of Pentax lenses for my 645D.
12-03-2011, 11:49 AM   #21
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i am a nikon owner for years, i got the 645d simply because of the price of D3x, i stopped thinking about D3X when i took first portrait shot with FA 120mm F4, but still use nikon for wild life,even after i bought the FA 400mm F5.6 .
if u want one sytem and need speed or reach ,stick to nikon. but if money is no issue or if you are thinking of D3X ... then 645d is really pleasure to use.

Regards.

Ahmed
pentax 645d + 8 (prime) lens.
Nikon(s) with 14+ lens.

Last edited by alkassim; 12-05-2011 at 10:27 AM.
12-05-2011, 12:01 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
I haven't tracked the number but I would guess in the 3-4K range. I have a K-5 for 'grab shooting' or situations where the 645D is less appropriate. I'm not really concerned about the 50K number that Pentax states as life expectancy for the shutter. I think they are probably being somewhat conservative and a shutter replacement at 50-100K shouldn't break the bank for a working professional photographer.
This is not life expectancy but the limit where the shutter is "guaranteed" to be within specification. It is probably a very conervative estimate probably due to the fact that Pentax suspect some of them will see very heavy studio usage....
12-05-2011, 03:09 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
I can't imagine doing this with a Leica S-2 much less some of the other MFD systems on the market whereas the Pentax seems to exude an aura of "lets go, I'm ready".
Fair's fair, I could imagine doing what I do with the 645D with the S2 or a Phase/Leaf or Hasselblad system. There are certain things I like about the Pentax over the others, but that is simple preference. The S2 is a rugged machine, it is just a pity it costs so much.

12-05-2011, 03:26 PM   #24
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645D and Leica S2

QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
Fair's fair, I could imagine doing what I do with the 645D with the S2 or a Phase/Leaf or Hasselblad system. There are certain things I like about the Pentax over the others, but that is simple preference. The S2 is a rugged machine, it is just a pity it costs so much.
The S2 sensor is identical to the 645D. I note that Leitz offers lens adapters for using Pentax 67 and 645 lenses with the S2.
12-05-2011, 06:17 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jackinkc Quote
The S2 sensor is identical to the 645D.
Except that it is a 3:2 aspect ratio and 3MP smaller, but it is a (formerly) Kodak sensor.
12-08-2011, 12:27 AM   #26
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I'm thinking of moving into the 645D in the spring, but I'm waiting and seeing what comes out in the meantime. Right now, I'm shooting film with the 645NII, so here's how I justify moviing ahead:

Buying the 645D with the 25mm lens is like spending $15,000 worth of film, processing, and scanning up front. If I would spend $3,000/year for these things, then the camera will pay for itself in 5 years. After the 5th year, the 40MP camera may still be worth at least $2,000 and any additional usage is FREE because I'm no longer paying the price of shooting film. When I sell it, I can put that money into the newest model, understanding that all we really doing is rent the equipment from ourselves since it's losing value all the time, anyway.

Plus, you also can't put a price on convenience and being able to show those big beautiful pictures right away. Right now, it takes months for me to get the film processed, then scanned, and then working it up Photoshop. And, then there's the creative aspect and being able to achieve results that you just can't get with film like the much wider dynamic range and the perfect alignment that allows for enabling focus stacking and HDR (or exposure blending).

But, I'm on the fence because of the price of just one lens ($5K) at just one focal length. I asked myself if I'd be on the fence if it were a Nikon or a Canon, and the answer is a resounding "No!" But, it's Pentax and I haven't had luck supporting the underdog.

A lot can happen in just a few months and even though I don't like the idea of shooting landscapes with a 35mm camera (aspect ratio, lesser image quality, etc.), if Nikon offers a 36MP body at $9K, I might take the leap. It's only an extra $1,200 for the super sharp 16-35mm lens and I'm $5K the richer.

After 3 years, the Nikon body would have paid for itself (2 years sooner than the 645D w/25mm lens). Then, if Pentax is still around, I could then sell the Nikon body for $4K and put that towards the newest version of the 645Dn body (which might be a full-frame 60MP body) and I may never need another camera until it breaks down and can't be repaired anymore.

So, I'm playing it by ear, but I not going to wait forever. At some point, I need to jump in.

Last edited by chicagonature; 12-08-2011 at 12:32 AM. Reason: typos
12-09-2011, 10:03 PM   #27
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I just read that it's been rumored for a while that the Nikon D800 will be coming out soon. It's a full-frame 36MP camera with options like no anti-aliasing filter. Plus, it has video and all those bells, whistles, and conveniences that come with the 35mm format. If the rumor comes true at the rumored price of $3,900, unless I'm missing something, the Pentax 645D is dead.

Pentax made a camera with 40MP, well withing reach of the major 35mm manufacturers who can make the camera at half the price. Maybe 50 or 600MP would have been a better choice like what other medium format makers were producing at that time. If the rumor comes true, they're screwed unless they come out with a 60MP really fast at about the same $10K price tag or lower. Or maybe they could drop the price of the 645D down to $7K. But, when you can buy a Nikon and save $6,000 and have access to their the vast arsenal of lenses, that's a big deal. In the U.S., there are only two lenses that are part of the Pentax medium format lineup (25mm and 55mm). The rest are discontinued and aren't available new in the U.S. I've been waiting a long time for Pentax medium format to go digital and I don't want to keep waiting for them to produce lenses.

if the rumor is true, the 645D is dead. Am I missing something?

(Whether the rumor is true or not, it does point to a certain vulnerablity of the 645D product: pressure from the 35mm makers, a customer base that they abandoned, unlikeliness that they could steal MF customers from Hasselblad, Leica, Phase 1, etc., and there's only 2 modern lens choices.)
12-10-2011, 03:22 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by chicagonature Quote
I just read that it's been rumored for a while that the Nikon D800 will be coming out soon. It's a full-frame 36MP camera with options like no anti-aliasing filter. Plus, it has video and all those bells, whistles, and conveniences that come with the 35mm format. If the rumor comes true at the rumored price of $3,900, unless I'm missing something, the Pentax 645D is dead.

Pentax made a camera with 40MP, well withing reach of the major 35mm manufacturers who can make the camera at half the price. Maybe 50 or 600MP would have been a better choice like what other medium format makers were producing at that time. If the rumor comes true, they're screwed unless they come out with a 60MP really fast at about the same $10K price tag or lower. Or maybe they could drop the price of the 645D down to $7K. But, when you can buy a Nikon and save $6,000 and have access to their the vast arsenal of lenses, that's a big deal. In the U.S., there are only two lenses that are part of the Pentax medium format lineup (25mm and 55mm). The rest are discontinued and aren't available new in the U.S. I've been waiting a long time for Pentax medium format to go digital and I don't want to keep waiting for them to produce lenses.

if the rumor is true, the 645D is dead. Am I missing something?

(Whether the rumor is true or not, it does point to a certain vulnerablity of the 645D product: pressure from the 35mm makers, a customer base that they abandoned, unlikeliness that they could steal MF customers from Hasselblad, Leica, Phase 1, etc., and there's only 2 modern lens choices.)
It's not all about the numbers though, but also to do with the size of the sensor. Plenty of rumours about a higher spec Canon 5D mk III and yet Canon haven't made any announcements regarding it.

I think that the rumour is pie in the sky. Nikon won't have a D700 replacement treble it's resolution, because it doesn't need to do that. It hasn't tried to match the 5D II which is it's direct competition. I also don't think that they will have a camera half the price of the D3X with 50% more resolution. That willl never happen. beware the online rumours. They are notoriously unreliable.

My guess? They will use a similar sensor to the one in the D3X in the D800 between 20 and 25 mp. Canon are rumoured to be going for between 24 and 32mp. nikon has never really tried to compete on numbers alone, they have competed mainly on low light and focussing.

Besides which if it was just about the number of pixels you would never have medium format in the first place.
12-10-2011, 04:50 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by chicagonature Quote
I just read that it's been rumored for a while that the Nikon D800 will be coming out soon. It's a full-frame 36MP camera with options like no anti-aliasing filter. Plus, it has video and all those bells, whistles, and conveniences that come with the 35mm format. If the rumor comes true at the rumored price of $3,900, unless I'm missing something, the Pentax 645D is dead.

Pentax made a camera with 40MP, well withing reach of the major 35mm manufacturers who can make the camera at half the price. Maybe 50 or 600MP would have been a better choice like what other medium format makers were producing at that time. If the rumor comes true, they're screwed unless they come out with a 60MP really fast at about the same $10K price tag or lower. Or maybe they could drop the price of the 645D down to $7K. But, when you can buy a Nikon and save $6,000 and have access to their the vast arsenal of lenses, that's a big deal. In the U.S., there are only two lenses that are part of the Pentax medium format lineup (25mm and 55mm). The rest are discontinued and aren't available new in the U.S. I've been waiting a long time for Pentax medium format to go digital and I don't want to keep waiting for them to produce lenses.

if the rumor is true, the 645D is dead. Am I missing something?

(Whether the rumor is true or not, it does point to a certain vulnerablity of the 645D product: pressure from the 35mm makers, a customer base that they abandoned, unlikeliness that they could steal MF customers from Hasselblad, Leica, Phase 1, etc., and there's only 2 modern lens choices.)
Ah, a rumor. On the internet I suppose. Yeah, the internet pundits are really good. I worked for a Japanese camera company with the product development teams. I would say you should not put too much weight into those great minds on the web.

You mean Nikon is going to make a 36MP sensor that is 33mm x 44mm with a 6um pixel pitch? And there is the rub. Size matters. I have a Phase One P25+ 22MP back that no 24MP 35mm can touch in in quality just as the new Sony 24MP APS sensors don't compete with its 24MP 35mm one. When I came to buy my medium-format camera for personal projects, I did not go back to Phase.

Price a 50/60MP camera from the other MFD companies. How fast is the S2 lens line developing? Not everyone cares that their old lens line is not available new. And you obviously never shot in medium- or large-format, many photographers do not need or care that there are a thousand different lenses available.

If you want 35mm convenience, it is not in medium-format. It never has and never will. Pixel resolution and improvements in technology are always overrated. The photographers that actually shoot MFD don't actually jump ship to smaller formats because they have more pixels (wonder why the new Canon flagship model is 18MP, not more?). The quality difference is real and something a smaller sensor cannot imitate no matter how good the technology gets.

I was told in 2000 that film would be dead in five years. Now you can't even find a single film image on a forum like this. So now you are saying Pentax medium-format digital is dead because of 35mm or price?

Last edited by Yamanobori; 12-10-2011 at 05:38 AM.
12-10-2011, 07:23 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by chicagonature Quote
if the rumor is true, the 645D is dead. Am I missing something?
Yes. That the next 645 Digital will be FF and have 80-100mp.....
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