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02-16-2012, 03:02 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But what if you can have it all?
Then i consider hardware...


Last edited by Zygonyx; 02-16-2012 at 12:41 PM.
02-16-2012, 04:21 AM   #122
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If anyone of you want to sell your decadent Petax 645D to buy a Nikon D800, I'll buy it ..
02-16-2012, 05:04 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Paying for more than you need is almost as crazy as buying something that won't do the job. Although if you have the money and you are committed to making a mistake, I guess overkill is better. At least the job gets done.
You can always shoot jpeg's...nikon cameras usually do a nice job compressing the pictures...at least the d7000 shots and d700 shots i've taken look better than the 5dmkII and those of my lovely Kx (been trying different cameras to decide wich FF system to buy...the d800 seems a nice choice for the price).
Don't think it's overkill if you're going to use the characteristics even if seldomly used.

QuoteOriginally posted by phonoline Quote
Btw, just looked at the sample images on the Nikon site again. I don't get the fuss about the D800. This sample, for instance (http://chsvimg.nikon.com/lineup/dslr...1/img_02_l.jpg) shows clearly that the 645D can do a lot better job here as far as sharpness and details are concerned. The library picture looks plain awful to me and doesn't even come close to what a 645D could do here.
ok....probably it ain't fare to compare a 10K MF camera to a 3K FF one..i'm pretty sure the 645d on the hands of an experienced photographer WOULD have delivered a killer image...BUT that's not the point, the point is that the d800 is capable of an impressive resolution being a 35mm camera...and i think that normhead wasn't trying to compare the 645D to the d800 through those images but he was trying to show that handled correctly the d800 can provide a good quality image that has nothing to envy to a normal 645D shot (or at least that's how i understood it).
Oh and if we were to compare things like that i'm sure a Sinar with a 86h back correctly handled can beat the 645D that does not mean the 645D isn't a great MF camera.
And then what is the thing you don't like about the test shot you linked phono? have you seen it at 100% in the eye's area or the lips? that's a pic WITHOUT PP straight power out of a preprod d800...it looks promising to me...let's wait serious reviews and production units shots to really judge it's capabilities.
02-16-2012, 10:17 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Coeurdechene Quote
ok....probably it ain't fare to compare a 10K MF camera to a 3K FF one..i'm pretty sure the 645d on the hands of an experienced photographer WOULD have delivered a killer image...BUT that's not the point, the point is that the d800 is capable of an impressive resolution being a 35mm camera...and i think that normhead wasn't trying to compare the 645D to the d800 through those images but he was trying to show that handled correctly the d800 can provide a good quality image that has nothing to envy to a normal 645D shot (or at least that's how i understood it).
Oh and if we were to compare things like that i'm sure a Sinar with a 86h back correctly handled can beat the 645D that does not mean the 645D isn't a great MF camera.
And then what is the thing you don't like about the test shot you linked phono? have you seen it at 100% in the eye's area or the lips? that's a pic WITHOUT PP straight power out of a preprod d800...it looks promising to me...let's wait serious reviews and production units shots to really judge it's capabilities.
I don't get the comparison, either. It's like comparing the Nikon F6 with the Pentax 67II. Of course, you can blow up any 35 negative to the limits still the Pentax 67 negative would look a lot better than the one taken with the F6. Same with the D800 and the Pentax 645D. Yeah, the D800 can obviosuly produce BIG images but in terms of sharpness, detail and quality of the glass the 645D cannot be beaten by the D800/D800E as it looks. There's an obvious lack in sharpness and detail in those D800 samples that you only recognize when you know what you can get out of the 645D. I would have probably liked the 36MP of the D800 but since I got the 645D, I am not too impressed. I am just impressed by the fact how fast the D800 can be.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aboudd Quote
I'm old, so you will have to excuse me, but the D800 isn't out yet is it? So, these photos were pulled off sites, not shot with the actual cameras, correct? If so, and the same scene wasn't actually shot with the 645D and the D800 under the same conditions - ISO and lighting, how the hell is this a valid comparison?
Of course, the D800 samples were shot with the D800. They come directly from the Nikon site.

02-16-2012, 10:25 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by ACH DIGITAL Quote
If anyone of you want to sell your decadent Petax 645D to buy a Nikon D800, I'll buy it ..
not by the hairt on my chiny,chin chin.
02-17-2012, 03:57 AM   #126
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Duh, I know the Nikon D800 images were from the Nikon site, I'm old - but not addle brained. ;-0 .. What I meant to get across is that these photos were not taken by the people making the point that the D800E is equal to the Pentax 645D. Until one of you guys gets both the 645D and the 800E in hand and shoots the same scene with the two cameras at the same time this discussion is a bit surreal.

No matter what, I'm sticking with the D and upgrading my D3s to the D4. That should cover any assignment I get thrown at me.

Last edited by Aboudd; 02-17-2012 at 04:03 AM.
02-17-2012, 05:13 AM   #127
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If only i had 2000$ more! i would definitely pick one too!
i prefer the 16Mpx with the high ISO capabilities.
The vid they made with it is also amazing!
They actually put one of those on Rc helicopters for some of the scenes...
02-17-2012, 08:46 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aboudd Quote
Duh, I know the Nikon D800 images were from the Nikon site, I'm old - but not addle brained. ;-0 .. What I meant to get across is that these photos were not taken by the people making the point that the D800E is equal to the Pentax 645D. Until one of you guys gets both the 645D and the 800E in hand and shoots the same scene with the two cameras at the same time this discussion is a bit surreal.

You might be right there.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aboudd Quote
No matter what, I'm sticking with the D and upgrading my D3s to the D4. That should cover any assignment I get thrown at me.
The D4 is much more interesting for me, too. But slightly overprized.

02-18-2012, 04:04 AM   #129
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How does one justify a price on any camera? For me it is by what it does in the way of performance, ergonomics and the feature set. Given those factors, the $700 bump in the D4 over the D3s seems about right.
02-18-2012, 06:29 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aboudd Quote
the $700 bump in the D4 over the D3s seems about right.
Okay maybe comparatively...but taken the single model all the D line is overpriced...they charge what they think the people who work with those is willing to pay.
Just wanna see how low the D3x can plumet once the d800 is available...although i suspect it'll hold it's price pretty well considering the situation. Damn i've never really understood how they managed to sell that model, for the same price of the body only you can buy a Hasselblad H3-31MP with the sandart 80mmf2,8 lens (or a mamiya)...
02-18-2012, 08:43 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Coeurdechene Quote
Okay maybe comparatively...but taken the single model all the D line is overpriced...they charge what they think the people who work with those is willing to pay.
Just wanna see how low the D3x can plumet once the d800 is available...although i suspect it'll hold it's price pretty well considering the situation. Damn i've never really understood how they managed to sell that model, for the same price of the body only you can buy a Hasselblad H3-31MP with the sandart 80mmf2,8 lens (or a mamiya)...
Where do you buy an H3 new? The H4D 31 cost $14 w/ lens, the Nikon $8K for a body.

The camera companies do not base their price on what they think people will pay. A $8K camera is a real risk. Most cannot afford it. There is no point in overpricing their products.
02-18-2012, 09:24 AM   #132
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Tienda de fotografia e imagen digital con camaras digitales y accesorios
This is just one place...The other day making the reserves for the d800 i was offered a Mamiya body+phase one back at roughly the same price...Maybe they are just cleaning their inventory of stocked old models but still...
The D3x has a ridicule price. BUT you may be right, maybe they are not "overpricing" (but i find it hard to believe). I think that they price so high because they think there is a market willing to pay those prices much more than because of the real costs.
Although i admit this is said lightly without thourough knowledge of the sales numbers, units sold and assembly line costs...i could picture a scenario where mantaining a differentiated assembly line for that top model, plus the real world demand position that product at that price point.
02-18-2012, 09:44 AM   #133
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At Photokina 2012 Pentax will announce the successor to the 645D at 60MP FF widening the gap. This camera may take half a year to a year to make it to the USA market. At the same time they will present a new wide zoom and standard zoom which will come out at the same time.

Now that was all theory.
But lets be honest it is difficult to compare a digital camera today that has been in the market for a while with cameras that haven't even hit the shelves yet. At 36mp, 35mm FF is reaching it's limit at out resolving all lens options available. Going higher in resolution means critical advances in lenses are needed for 35mm. However, the 645D can still go FF pulling even more MP out without further stressing the lenses. APSC of similar pixel density is a bit less stressed when using FF lenses because they are only using the optimum lens area so corners don't suffer as bad.

I am buying into a 645D because I love medium format. I like the performance of my old 645 lenses. Medium format is less stressed at the wide end than 35mm. I like bringing back a uniqueness to my images. While everybody else is busy with their 600mm 4.0's taking portraits of wildlife I am framing the wildlife into a landscape shot. 40MP is the upper limit I will ever need, it isn't becoming obsolete to me. Sure in 5 years I may purchase a 645DII but then I will have a spare body and hopefully FF giving me two options. The 645D isn't going to become obsolete like the K7 did when the K5 came out. The 645D by all reports is great at what it does best and sucks at what it does bad. If all you do is what it does great at then now the 645D will last in your eyes.
02-18-2012, 11:51 AM   #134
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I've had my 645D since last summer. I have yet to find anything on it that "sucks." There is the slowness of processor, sure, but given the nature of the shooting I do, I haven't really found that an issue. There only feature missing I would really appreciate is a vertical release button and maybe an articulating screen, but I would like that on any of my cameras.

What does suck is Ricoh/Pentax incredibly slow release and availability of lenses. Instead of putting their efforts into a lacquered special edition body, who do they think they are Leica? ;-), they should get production up.
02-18-2012, 12:26 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aboudd Quote
I've had my 645D since last summer. I have yet to find anything on it that "sucks." There is the slowness of processor, sure, but given the nature of the shooting I do, I haven't really found that an issue. There only feature missing I would really appreciate is a vertical release button and maybe an articulating screen, but I would like that on any of my cameras.

What does suck is Ricoh/Pentax incredibly slow release and availability of lenses. Instead of putting their efforts into a lacquered special edition body, who do they think they are Leica? ;-), they should get production up.
I was basically saying that there are somethings the camera isn't designed for. You are obviously like me and don't find yourself photographing in this style much. People aren't buyin a 645D to photograph race cars crossing the finish line, a lion in pursuit of game, a mountain bike wizing past you, a late evening football game...
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