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02-24-2012, 10:02 PM   #16
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Dave, an 80MP Leaf back is $31,000, $35,000 with camera kit. I believe the new IQ180 is $45,000--I just saved you ten grand. Hasselblad has pixel shifting and has a 200MP camera (50MP native sensor when shifted), limited use to mostly studio and architecture, but impressive as the glass seems to be handling it.

Personally, the MP count is just not very interesting to me. Sensor size, ISO, and DR are more important, with sensor size being the most interesting. It seems to me the only thing the MP count is doing is simply filling up my drives without a real benefit. I make beautiful prints on a 44" wide printer with both my Phase One P25+ 22MP back and 645D. I think if Pentax next releases a 44x33 60MP sensor, which is just a 22% increase in resolving power, I am uncertain why folks would jump from the original 645D, although I am certain it would bring new members into the flock.

02-24-2012, 11:18 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
Dave, an 80MP Leaf back is $31,000, $35,000 with camera kit. I believe the new IQ180 is $45,000--I just saved you ten grand. Hasselblad has pixel shifting and has a 200MP camera (50MP native sensor when shifted), limited use to mostly studio and architecture, but impressive as the glass seems to be handling it.

Personally, the MP count is just not very interesting to me. Sensor size, ISO, and DR are more important, with sensor size being the most interesting. It seems to me the only thing the MP count is doing is simply filling up my drives without a real benefit. I make beautiful prints on a 44" wide printer with both my Phase One P25+ 22MP back and 645D. I think if Pentax next releases a 44x33 60MP sensor, which is just a 22% increase in resolving power, I am uncertain why folks would jump from the original 645D, although I am certain it would bring new members into the flock.
Thanks for saving me 10 grand...now I can buy two IQ 180's! Seriously though, I agree that the practical nature of increasing resolution of current chip to 60MP, wouldn't make a hugh difference, but as you can see from the costs of the IQ 140, IQ160 and IQ180 backs, each incremental jump is expensive.. If Pentax was to come out with a successor to the 645D say in the next 12-18 moths, to combat the perceived equality of the Nikon D800e that many are touting....I think either a jump to a larger sized sensor and/or greater than 60MP, would price the camera out of it's nitch of being a great value for the $$ catagory and an entry way to MFD for many. Another way they could go is keep the present 645D and have an additonal model based on a larger sensor and 60MP who's costs might be somewhere near $16,000+, which would still keep it as a price point leader compared to the competition. As I mentioned, as nice as it would be to have a larger sensor and 80MP resolution as the next 645D model, costs at the present, would price the camera out of the hands of Pentax's main base of users I believe. Wishing for certain specs are nice, but practicality and what could be done at a certain price point is another.

Dave

Last edited by DandA; 02-24-2012 at 11:40 PM.
02-25-2012, 01:55 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by DandA Quote
If Pentax was to come out with a successor to the 645D say in the next 12-18 moths, to combat the perceived equality of the Nikon D800e that many are touting....I think either a jump to a larger sized sensor and/or greater than 60MP, would price the camera out of it's nitch of being a great value for the $$ catagory and an entry way to MFD for many.
QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
Personally, the MP count is just not very interesting to me. Sensor size, ISO, and DR are more important, with sensor size being the most interesting
I would have bought the 645D when it first came out if it was 40MP and a larger sensor even if the price was around 15k. Or if the wide zoom in the roadmap was available from the start. People can sit there and scream just stitch pictures all they want but there are times when you just can't. Back then when I was in the USA I was taking a lot of pictures with water in them, I love water, (ocean, waterfalls, streams, etc.). And high elevation mountain scenes, scenes with a lot of upper elevation wind moving the clouds rapidly. That isn't easy to stitch. And then there are these people that scream zoom with your feet... But then balancing the foreground you wanted with the background is harder. Stitching isn't straight forward when the fore ground is a meter in from of you and the background is 20 km in front of you

Now I am here in Namibia building up my desert landscape portfolio. Stitching is a bit easier proposition but isn't as necessary because the wide angle isn't used as much. But there are trade offs with everything, the larger sensor means less DOF which is not an advantage to me unless I decide to find a hartblei 45mm tilt/shift.

Anyways I made the call to go 645D, I haven't quite finalized the purchase yet. But I am not calling it off just because Nikon has figured out how to pull too much resolution from a 35mm lens. I know the D800 and 35mm lenses aren't going to perform to my expectations 75% of the time. Would the Nikon body and 14-24mm lens with a adapter to use 645 lens be a nice supplement and come in at the same cost as just purchasing the 25mm 645 lens, sure. It would be a great back up and super wide angle supplement. An option I may go for. I will likely wait and see what this new wide zoom is for 645. If this new lens performs and comes in around 3-5k it is a no brainer.

Most photographers if they can justify it will choose the 645 medium format over the D800. I think the 645D II will have a larger sensor for sure. The current 645D will likely be starting at 7k by then making the entry into medium format more viable. Will it be a 67D, no, not a chance. We will likely never see that. I don't want higher MP; I want dynamic range, wider angles, and good high ISO (generally means keeping MP count low). Good high ISO lets me stop down more to get DOF and still use a reasonable shutter speed. Stopping down to 22 is going to reduce the lens sharpness making 60MP less of an advantage over 40...

Last edited by atlnq9; 02-25-2012 at 02:24 AM.
02-28-2012, 07:33 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by DandA Quote
I think realistically, the next step for the 645D is to up the # of MP to 60, keeping the current size of the present chip but with some advances in tech (electronics), the higher ISO performance will be equal to or slightly better than the current 40MP model Dave (D&A)
I think that making a larger (FF) sensor for the 645D is the most important possible progress. A cropped sensor for 645 is much more of an issue than for the K-mount due to the wide angle issue. In order to go wide, and not terribly wide, you need to buy that $5000 25mm lens whereas on a FF 645 the 33-55 (or the 35mm), which I already own, goes wide enough.


Last edited by Pål Jensen; 02-28-2012 at 10:52 AM.
02-29-2012, 07:26 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
I would have bought the 645D when it first came out if it was 40MP and a larger sensor even if the price was around 15k. Or if the wide zoom in the roadmap was available from the start. People can sit there and scream just stitch pictures all they want but there are times when you just can't. Back then when I was in the USA I was taking a lot of pictures with water in them, I love water, (ocean, waterfalls, streams, etc.). And high elevation mountain scenes, scenes with a lot of upper elevation wind moving the clouds rapidly. That isn't easy to stitch. And then there are these people that scream zoom with your feet... But then balancing the foreground you wanted with the background is harder. Stitching isn't straight forward when the fore ground is a meter in from of you and the background is 20 km in front of you
I totally agree with your rational here. I shoot a lot of scenes along Lake Superior and often a wave crash with a certain 'feel' to it is crucial in my images...so I can forget about trying to stitch in that case. Also, the perspective created by wide angle lenses and the way they can pull leading lines in the composition towards a subject can be quite magical in certain instances...another circumstance where stitching won't work well...also on windy days with leaves and grasses. In the Southwest there isn't as much water or moving foliage, so I can see pano stitching being more useful there.

If doing panos was always an option for me, I'd forget about the larger sensor get a good pano set-up and just shoot with my 5DII...but it's not an option most of the time for me, so once the 25mm comes out in the USA I'll probably be getting the 645D and selling my 5DII and my lenses.
03-02-2012, 10:08 AM   #21
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I just want the next 645d to be far more responsive to use. No way i would buy one of the current models with its 5 second delay between shooting and previewing the image... painful.
03-02-2012, 11:03 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by WerTicus Quote
I just want the next 645d to be far more responsive to use. No way i would buy one of the current models with its 5 second delay between shooting and previewing the image... painful.
You did not buy a Pentax 645D because of that? What 40MP MFD did you end up with?
03-02-2012, 12:25 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
You did not buy a Pentax 645D because of that? What 40MP MFD did you end up with?
Yeah, no kidding.

I completely failed to understand that rationale.

03-02-2012, 02:35 PM   #24
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With a class 10 card the delay between exposure and preview is about 2 seconds, maybe less, shooting raw and writing to a single card.
03-02-2012, 02:49 PM   #25
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Pentax 645DII

Ideal to get the following:
Sensor 36x48
Res.: 50-65 Mpx
ISO 50-6400
CF+SD slot
FireWire 800

Lens:
25-33mm zoom
35 tilt-shift
03-02-2012, 07:52 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by klewish Quote
With a class 10 card the delay between exposure and preview is about 2 seconds, maybe less, shooting raw and writing to a single card.
I use class 10 and single card and don't get this. But them the 645D is not aimed as an action camera but is aimed at landscape photographers. It's not a big issue waiting for a few seconds if you are well prepared and in situ early enough to get the best light . Any landscape photographer worth his salt will aim to be. I don't see how 5 secs makes that much difference. In fact it helps me decide on how to frame the shot, so improves things
03-02-2012, 09:31 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eduard Kraft Quote
Pentax 645DII Ideal to get the following: Sensor 36x48 Res.: 50-65 Mpx ISO 50-6400 CF+SD slot FireWire 800 Lens: 25-33mm zoom 35 tilt-shift
Pentax has already released a 25mm f/4 Prime - lens that gives roughly the same equivalent view as a 20mm on a 35mm format camera. But I certainly agree with you on the fact that a tilt/shift lens would be a welcome addition.
I personally would prefer it if we had even slower ISO settings as low as ISO 25 - the 645D does well at high ISO but that isn't what the 645D is built for, besides if I want clean high ISO I'll use my D3s. Personally I think pentax should go with dual Compact flash cards or even XQD cards, because the sheer size of the files at 50-65Mp is going to strain the bandwidth bottleneck with current SD card transfer rates.Personally I would also want to see a wireless file transfer capability added, that can be used for wireless tethering and the module can be separate add-on, with a connector to the firewire 800 port and with the data transmitter fitting into the hot shoe like the Pentax GPS.
03-03-2012, 06:17 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
I use class 10 and single card and don't get this. But them the 645D is not aimed as an action camera but is aimed at landscape photographers. It's not a big issue waiting for a few seconds if you are well prepared and in situ early enough to get the best light . Any landscape photographer worth his salt will aim to be. I don't see how 5 secs makes that much difference. In fact it helps me decide on how to frame the shot, so improves things
I get about 2 seconds to instant review with histogram turned off. If you turn on histogram it's easily twice as long. I agree with your comments about the type of photography this camera is best suited for--a deliberate, contemplative style. Mine is always on a tripod. Given the amount of time I spend setting up the shot waiting 5 seconds to review is insignificant.

As for future features, I'd really appreciate Liveview as I seem to end up manually focusing more than half the time, and that's a challenge for my eyes, even with the excellent 645d OVF.
03-03-2012, 08:47 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eduard Kraft Quote
Pentax 645DII

Ideal to get the following:
CF+SD slot
My guess is that Pentax will stick with SDHX/SDXC since the new UHS-I cards can go up to 90 MB/s writing and can be made large enough to store files. There is a need for new electronics inside 645D2 to handle that speed. CF format is dying and will be pushed out of the market with XQD cards.
03-03-2012, 08:49 AM   #30
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I just ordered my 645D from B&H on wednesday, so I don't think I'm yet qualified (or maybe deserving enough) to lodge complaints, but I think a higher MP count 50-80, a faster processor, and live view would be the best offerings for me as a landscape shooter. A full frame would be great for allowing a wider perspective, but I wonder how the corner clarity would be then on the wide angle glass. But above all that, I think a new D FA zoom in the 30-70 range, or even 28-40 or so would be GREAT and would much rather see that before a new body. It's on their lens roadmap for, I believe, 2012 (or later) for announcement.

With the 25 prime being $5K USD, I wonder how much the wide angle zoom would be??? I hope it's not as expensive as the Hasselblad 35-90!
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