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02-28-2012, 06:09 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
...
but find the dynamic range and editing control of digital allows me to produce better images on a K-5 than I got from medium format film.
...
Sure when you exposure blend to get DR. You can do that with film too. But for a single shot, you can get more range with BW film. For example, take your K-5 out on a bright, sunny day. Set the ISO to 400 and manually set the shutter speed to 1/2 second and f11. Take a shot. Blow any highlights? You can do that shot with BW film if you know how to compress your highlights and get a lot of DR (dark areas as low as EV2). Most people's experience with film is sending it out to get developed and never learn how to tweak the results as when you do it yourself.

Here is a test shot of that process. The dark area behind the girl's back measured EV2 and on a larger size clearly has detail.


400TMY, EI50, 120 Roll Film, f11, 4 Second Exposure






Last edited by tuco; 02-28-2012 at 07:14 PM.
02-28-2012, 07:23 PM   #17
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Great shot Tuco....this shot really shows the power of DR with film (especially b&w). I don't think a shot like this could be done with the current line of digital cameras. Maybe I am wrong but the fact that it's appears to be pretty bright outside the store tells me that if this was done with digital it would be almost completely blown out and unrecoverable. You could probably meter the inside and underexpose by 2 stops then try to bring it back in but you would get severe noise and loss of detail. This is just my opinion based on experience of trying shots like this myself.
02-28-2012, 08:08 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Sure when you exposure blend to get DR. You can do that with film too. But for a single shot, you can get more range with BW film. For example, take your K-5 out on a bright, sunny day. Set the ISO to 400 and manually set the shutter speed to 1/2 second and f11. Take a shot. Blow any highlights? You can do that shot with BW film if you know how to compress your highlights and get a lot of DR (dark areas as low as EV2). Most people's experience with film is sending it out to get developed and never learn how to tweak the results as when you do it yourself.

Here is a test shot of that process. The dark area behind the girl's back measured EV2 and on a larger size clearly has detail.


400TMY, EI50, 120 Roll Film, f11, 4 Second Exposure


I agree about B&W [read my message]; but digital, even without exposure blending, has much higher dynamic range than color film. To get the kind of color I want in landscapes, I shot Kodachrome 25 in 35mm and Velvia 50 in 120. Both have about 8 stops of dynamic range. The K-5 has can record over 14 stops in a single RAW image. No contest. HDR can expand that by several more stops.

Last edited by civiletti; 02-28-2012 at 08:09 PM. Reason: missed a word
02-28-2012, 08:43 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
I agree about B&W [read my message]; but digital, even without exposure blending, has much higher dynamic range than color film. To get the kind of color I want in landscapes, I shot Kodachrome 25 in 35mm and Velvia 50 in 120. Both have about 8 stops of dynamic range. The K-5 has can record over 14 stops in a single RAW image. No contest. HDR can expand that by several more stops.
If your reading the 14 stops off of dxo mark then I tend take that with a grain of salt. It says my 5d MKII is almost 12 and my 645D as 12.6. I can pull way more from my 645D. Maybe I am wrong here but I can pull way more detail from Ektar film than I can with my 5d MKII. Then again all these test are technical test.

Anyway, Digital is so much easier to deal with overall. I just started using film again and I love it...but I do see why many people stopped using it. Film has been a great benefit to me....it's caused me to slow down and make sure to get it right the first time. Heck the 645D had the same effect on me as well...but film really pushed me.

I shoot 2-3 times a week and would shoot 200-300 shots of that I would give the client around 50 shots to proof with my 5D and later 5D MKII. Since I got my 645D that number went down to around 100-200 shots taken....and thats with my wife helping.

02-28-2012, 08:58 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
I agree about B&W [read my message]; but digital, even without exposure blending, has much higher dynamic range than color film. To get the kind of color I want in landscapes, I shot Kodachrome 25 in 35mm and Velvia 50 in 120. Both have about 8 stops of dynamic range. The K-5 has can record over 14 stops in a single RAW image. No contest. HDR can expand that by several more stops.
No, you don't get 14 stops of DR in the end results. The sensor may be sensitive to that range but it's a number set for testing. You need to subtract 3 or so stops from advertised to get real results. 14 stops of DR means you could take that a picture out in the bright sun as I described. EV2 to EV16 would be 14 stops! Good luck with that

Many modern color negative films have more than 8 stops of light.



New Portra 400



02-28-2012, 09:02 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shuttershane Quote
Great shot Tuco....this shot really shows the power of DR with film (especially b&w).
Thanks. Yes it was summer in early afternoon. The concrete outside measured EV15. It too has some texture in it on a larger size. Middle gray exposure was EV6.
03-09-2012, 07:32 AM   #22
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Wow!!

So many interesting stories here, doesn't make me want a Medium format any less... hehe!!

Though for now I stay with my MZ-6, and got a MZ-7 for the wife too, and this weekend I will do my first development ever (got 12-15 rolls waiting to get to life!!!). Thrilling, will start with stand development in Rodinal, and then of course scanning of the negs, no paper photos, that's just TOO much hassle for now... When all this works fine, I'll be looking into getting me a cheaper medium box of some kind to start with I think.

03-09-2012, 09:12 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shuttershane Quote
Back on subject. I can tell you that going from a 35mm film camera to a 645N will be a very easy transition. Going from 35mm to a 6x7 system will be much harder....manual focusing can be a shock. I love my 645N and the look of film (large film especially) is very nice. Lenses I recommend are: 75mm, 45mm and the 120mm macro....but pretty much every lens from pentax is awesome.

I guess it depends how old you are when you go from 35mm to 6x7. I’ve been shooting with a Pentax KX (manual focus 35mm) since late 1975 and just got a Pentax 67 late last year. I found the switch very easy and the operations/functions of the Pentax K series 35mm film bodies very similar to the Pentax 6x7 and 67 bodies. The only real difference I find is that everything with the Pentax 6x7 system is larger and heavier! Shooting wise they are almost the same.

Phil.

03-09-2012, 03:11 PM   #24
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Even older color neg film had more DR than could be reproduced on the papers of the time. Some time about 1990 a young lady brought me a negative on Kodak Ektar 100(?) that her photographer friend shot. It was of her engagement portrait including her fiance. Sunset shot, backlit, no fill on the Southern California coast in August. With a substantial amount of Pan Masking film and several days in the darkroom, I gave her back 11x14's that showed detail from his dark slacks to the sunset clouds in the background (about 14 zones.) So, in my experience, it's not that film doesn't have the ability to record a large range but that ther is usually no easy way to reproduce that range.
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