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03-08-2012, 09:20 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by NotaxPen Quote
Since nearly all my photos are vertical, and since camera design is no longer limited by the direction of film travel, I'm holding out for the MF digital camera designed specifically for Portrait Photographers. BTW, my Fuji 645 rangefinder shoots vertical without having to turn the camera on it's side. I would love a digital version with a slightly longer lens.
OK, I know the photographic world is completely dominated by landscape shooters, but I can dream can't I?
A Sinar Hy/6 with a Leaf back with rotating sensor. A Hasselblad V series camera with a Phase back mounted in the vertical orientation would work as well. Or a Phase on the Sinar.

There you go.

03-09-2012, 06:22 AM   #32
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Back to the OP, I'm thinking Mamiya is more likely to come up with a mirrorless MF that is compatible with the 6 or 7 lenses. They already have the lenses where as Pentax would have to come up with new lenses at a great cost.
03-09-2012, 07:32 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by revdocjim Quote
Back to the OP, I'm thinking Mamiya is more likely to come up with a mirrorless MF that is compatible with the 6 or 7 lenses. They already have the lenses where as Pentax would have to come up with new lenses at a great cost.
Why can't Pentax use the 645 lenses? Just like the K-01 uses Pentax DSLR lenses.
03-09-2012, 07:45 AM   #34
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Well surely they could. But since reduced flange distance is one of the benefits of going mirrorless it would seem to make more sense to have smaller lenses that contribute to making the whole system smaller. I don't think I want to even touch the K-01 issue for fear of completely derailing this conversation.

But then again, the 645 primes up to the 150mm are reasonably small so I guess I can see them working OK on a mirrorless.

03-09-2012, 08:19 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by revdocjim Quote
I don't think I want to even touch the K-01 issue for fear of completely derailing this conversation.
Of course, my original post was arguably off the rails, and you level-headed folk promptly de-derailed it!

I would guess that Pentax's engineers would have all sorts of prototypes floating about their labs, one of which would be the bastard offspring of a K-01 and 645D. Think of a K-01 at about twice the size on the x, y and z axes, an EVF, no in-body SR, and a control layout very similar to the 645D.

This is all pure guesswork, of course, but as I said, I strongly suspect that something along these lines is being toyed with right now deep inside Pentax. Whether it ever sees the light of day is another question of course.
03-09-2012, 09:34 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
Why can't Pentax use the 645 lenses? Just like the K-01 uses Pentax DSLR lenses.
Or with a mirror, but one that does not move: following Douglas of Sweden's suggestion to put the sensor where the pentaprism is. And have a kind of waist level finder. That would be very neat, and would reduce depth considerably. Although I'm not sure whether it would not adversely affect image quality. Still, a cool idea worth being referenced here.
03-09-2012, 10:02 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smolk Quote
Or with a mirror, but one that does not move: following Douglas of Sweden's suggestion to put the sensor where the pentaprism is. And have a kind of waist level finder. That would be very neat, and would reduce depth considerably. Although I'm not sure whether it would not adversely affect image quality. Still, a cool idea worth being referenced here.
The mirror required to maintain quality (and the precision required for the mount of it) would be crazy expensive compared to the current design

Aside from a wish for an RF style MF (like the Fujis,Bronica and Mamiyas of the film era) I doubt any MF shooter is overly bothered by size (the 645D is a pretty compact system compared to some of the MF that has been successful)
03-09-2012, 10:07 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Aside from a wish for an RF style MF
Well that's the very point, RF is still around for those who are concerned about size, for whatever reason. I briefly enjoyed a Plaubel Makina 67, a digital equivalent would be highly appreciated by me, despite my having a fairly complete P645 system—which I love. Down to 6 lenses now, from 12, which is probably a good thing for me.

03-09-2012, 10:15 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smolk Quote
Well that's the very point, RF is still around for those who are concerned about size, for whatever reason. I briefly enjoyed a Plaubel Makina 67, a digital equivalent would be highly appreciated by me, despite my having a fairly complete P645 system—which I love. Down to 6 lenses now, from 12, which is probably a good thing for me.
I agree, I like the idea of a MF that falls somewhere in that category. I just think the odds are better for a Mamiya coming from Phase thananyone else doing it
03-09-2012, 12:18 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by revdocjim Quote
Well surely they could. But since reduced flange distance is one of the benefits of going mirrorless it would seem to make more sense to have smaller lenses that contribute to making the whole system smaller. I don't think I want to even touch the K-01 issue for fear of completely derailing this conversation.

But then again, the 645 primes up to the 150mm are reasonably small so I guess I can see them working OK on a mirrorless.
But they can make the camera much smaller without changing the flange distance. The sensor plane is far away from the back of the camera (in front of the LCD on the top plate) and they can wrap most of the electronics around the area of the mirror box and cut a whole bunch off its depth.

The problem of making the 645D smaller has nothing to do with the flange distance. And flange distances don't always lead to compact designs--just look at the Sony Nex. The lenses make up for the small bodies.
03-09-2012, 12:21 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smolk Quote
Or with a mirror, but one that does not move: following Douglas of Sweden's suggestion to put the sensor where the pentaprism is. And have a kind of waist level finder. That would be very neat, and would reduce depth considerably. Although I'm not sure whether it would not adversely affect image quality. Still, a cool idea worth being referenced here.
That would not make it smaller--it is the same optical path length. (You do realize the sensor is already deep in the body and most of the bulk at the back of the camera is just space.)
03-09-2012, 12:25 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I agree, I like the idea of a MF that falls somewhere in that category. I just think the odds are better for a Mamiya coming from Phase thananyone else doing it
Phase does not make integrated back systems. Putting a back on a rangefinder makes for a big camera that is hard to use. And a rangefinder design would add a lot of costs to the project--they are expensive cameras to make. Much more so than SLRs.
03-09-2012, 01:56 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
Phase does not make integrated back systems. Putting a back on a rangefinder makes for a big camera that is hard to use. And a rangefinder design would add a lot of costs to the project--they are expensive cameras to make. Much more so than SLRs.
I realise they currently don't make an integrated back system, they are however partnered with mamiya so if it was to happen they would be the source and it would be a joint venture. The current business model they have makes sense given the small market. the backs can be bought separately and with the correct mount plate be used with most older systems (not as slick as the phase mamiya packages maybe but certainly as easy as film for the most part)
If Mamiya wants to keep the 6/7 series revenue stream at some point they will need to come up with a Digital variant. Every year that goes by the selection of films dwindles (sadly IMO) long term B?W will stay viable with the production from the smaller producers, but Kodak is now exiting transparencies, Fuji has killed films left and right over the last few years the time will come where the scale they produce on is just no longer viable (even with the craze to go back and try film out). this will happen more due to the movie industry going fully digital and in the last 2 years that has been moving at a rapid clip
03-09-2012, 08:03 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
Why can't Pentax use the 645 lenses? Just like the K-01 uses Pentax DSLR lenses.
QuoteOriginally posted by revdocjim Quote
Well surely they could. But since reduced flange distance is one of the benefits of going mirrorless it would seem to make more sense to have smaller lenses that contribute to making the whole system smaller. I don't think I want to even touch the K-01 issue for fear of completely derailing this conversation.

But then again, the 645 primes up to the 150mm are reasonably small so I guess I can see them working OK on a mirrorless.
What he said.

The camera body would have to be unreasonably deep.


Steve
03-09-2012, 10:05 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
What he said.

The camera body would have to be unreasonably deep.


Steve
Really? Do you know where the 645D sensor plane is (marked in red)? What if you just move it to the back of the camera? It makes the camera quite compact--not much thicker than the grip. Not much different to what Mamiya does with the 7 mount which really sticks out from the body.
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Last edited by Yamanobori; 03-09-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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