New DA 25mm

veraikon · 03-23-2012, 07:38 AM

Originally posted by itshimitis

Don't think it will be as expensive as that UK price £3700

Hmm Photoscala is normally correct:

Quote:

Markteinführung / Preis: Die Auslieferung des smc DA 645 25 mm / 4 AL [IF] SDM AW Objektiv wird wahrscheinlich ab April erfolgen. Der Preis liegt bei ca. 4.800 Euro bzw. 5.999 CHFr.

Perhaps the £3700 is without VAT. ?

sjwaldron · 03-23-2012, 07:54 AM

This has no consequence to me, but wow... if they are going to sell the cropped lens around the same price as the D-FA and only to foreigners... That's a real **** move on Pentax's part. I would think at that price they could manage to fill the entire frame of standard 645.

Ryan Tischer · 03-23-2012, 08:52 AM

I guess this sort of makes sense, but wish they would pass on the savings to the customer for the DA 645 25mm! I am curious how different the performance will be between the two lenses on the 645D?

itshimitis · 03-23-2012, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by veraikon

Hmm Photoscala is normally correct: Perhaps the £3700 is without VAT. ?

£3799 including VAT although described as DFA, Ffordes sell only stock imported for the UK:

DFA 25mm F4 AL IF SDM AW by Pentax - Ffordes Photographic

**Ed Hurst** · 03-23-2012, 09:59 AM

Topace said above: "D-FA isn't quite compatible either. They lack aperture rings, and the 645 film cameras can set aperture electronically if in shutter priority mode, but not otherwise."

Don't the latter film bodies (the N and Nii) have electronic aperture control in the body, making the first variant of this lens fully compatible? Obviously the original 645 film body lacks this...

But it seems to me that the main point here is that this signals that there won't be a full frame 645Dii.

BTW, note there is no crop-only version of the DFA 55mm

Thomas · 03-23-2012, 10:56 AM

You're right Ed, the N and NII allow electronic aperature control when the lens aperature is set to "A". I'm very concerned that the 25mm is now a D FA lens implying no full frame 645DII; Pentax made a mistake converting from FA to D FA in the 35mm lenses and now seem intent on repeating it.

Zygonyx · 03-23-2012, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Ayoh

It makes a bit more sense now:

"Changes or improvements to the predecessor model:
Due to the high manufacturing effort for a lens with an image field illumination for the analog Pentax 645 system has decided to offer this focal length in two variants.

Option 1 - DFA 645 25 mm due to the large spread of the analog 645 system exclusively for the Japanese market

Option 2 - DA 645 25 mm, this lens is intended for distribution outside of the Asian market"

Hello Ayoh, where do you quote this from ?

Last edited by Zygonyx; 03-23-2012 at 11:59 PM.

topace · 03-23-2012, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Ed Hurst

Topace said above: "D-FA isn't quite compatible either. They lack aperture rings, and the 645 film cameras can set aperture electronically if in shutter priority mode, but not otherwise."

Don't the latter film bodies (the N and Nii) have electronic aperture control in the body, making the first variant of this lens fully compatible? Obviously the original 645 film body lacks this...

645N can set the aperture when the lens is in A mode or lack aperture ring, yes. But unless I've missed some controls on my 645N (I didn't read the manual, since the camera's normally so easy to shoot with), it does not have an interface to set it in AV or M mode, only TV or P. It seems that MZ-S has the same problem in small format.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

DandA · 03-23-2012, 11:07 PM

Hi
I stated this elsewhere but I think it might be germain to the discussion. I don't think this revised lens necessarily means that there will be no full frame 645D. It appears that to align the image circle perfectly with the older model lens for use on full frame, it might have been a labor intensive effort and many samples initially didn't cut it. Therefore to streamline production and make things easier to adjust in assembly, modifications were made to the lens and the image circle and alignment just has to be a bit greater than that needed for the cropped 645D sensor. Theoretically, the new version should be less expensive but Pentax might not want to offend those that already spent money for the older lens for use on their 645D.
Dave (DandA)

veraikon · 03-24-2012, 02:54 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Hello Ayoh, where do you quote this from ?

It is a translation from the photoscala article (en allemand

) - link above

Ryan Tischer · 03-25-2012, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by DandA

Nikon migth not want to ofeend those that already spent money for the older lens

I think you meant Pentax

I doubt Nikon would mind if Pentax offended their customers!

drougge · 03-25-2012, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Ed Hurst

Don't the latter film bodies (the N and Nii) have electronic aperture control in the body, making the first variant of this lens fully compatible? Obviously the original 645 film body lacks this...

It's the other way around actually, the original Pentax 645 can use aperture priority with the lens in A mode, 645N and NII can't. (See page 36 in the 645 manual, and page 40 in the 645N manual.) All of them can of course use lenses in A mode with shutter priority or in program mode. I don't think any of them can use the new lenses in bulb mode unless you want the smallest aperture.

DandA · 03-25-2012, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by Ryan Tischer

I think you meant Pentax

I doubt Nikon would mind if Pentax offended their customers!

Hi Ryan,

Yes, of course I meant "Pentax" not "Nikon" in my posting above. That wasn't the only necessary changes to my previous post, so I made a multitude of changes, and therefore reads much better and now makes sense. Thats what happens when I try posting from my tiny cell phone

Thanks for pointing out the typo!

Dave

**Pål Jensen** · 03-28-2012, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Smolk

I read somewhere that the lens hood is now designed to cover the cropped sensor of the 645D, rather than the FF. That may influence flare-resistance of course.

More ominously, perhaps the move implies that plans for a FF sensor have been shelved.

Actually, it might as well indicate the oposite. It may be that Pentax have figured out that this lens do not meet the standard for an FF 645 sensors (eg edge definition), and instead of giving the lens a bad reputation, they marked it as for cropped sensors only (the need for a 25mm on a FF 645 is debatable as it is extremely wide). Otherwise, it would be weird to keep the D-FA label on the new 90mm if there were no FF in the plans....Why not call all 645 lenses DA then?

**Pål Jensen** · 03-28-2012, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Ayoh

It makes a bit more sense now:

"Changes or improvements to the predecessor model:
Due to the high manufacturing effort for a lens with an image field illumination for the analog Pentax 645 system has decided to offer this focal length in two variants.

Option 1 - DFA 645 25 mm due to the large spread of the analog 645 system exclusively for the Japanese market

Option 2 - DA 645 25 mm, this lens is intended for distribution outside of the Asian market"

Doesn't make much sense really as they sell both at the same price. Why not sell the D-FA in all markeds?

03-23-2012, 11:07 PM	#24
DandA Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 129	Hi I stated this elsewhere but I think it might be germain to the discussion. I don't think this revised lens necessarily means that there will be no full frame 645D. It appears that to align the image circle perfectly with the older model lens for use on full frame, it might have been a labor intensive effort and many samples initially didn't cut it. Therefore to streamline production and make things easier to adjust in assembly, modifications were made to the lens and the image circle and alignment just has to be a bit greater than that needed for the cropped 645D sensor. Theoretically, the new version should be less expensive but Pentax might not want to offend those that already spent money for the older lens for use on their 645D. Dave (DandA) Last edited by DandA; 03-25-2012 at 10:20 PM.

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03-23-2012, 07:38 AM	#16
veraikon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Inside the Blue Banana ;) Posts: 255	Originally posted by itshimitis Don't think it will be as expensive as that UK price £3700 Hmm Photoscala is normally correct: Quote: Markteinführung / Preis: Die Auslieferung des smc DA 645 25 mm / 4 AL [IF] SDM AW Objektiv wird wahrscheinlich ab April erfolgen. Der Preis liegt bei ca. 4.800 Euro bzw. 5.999 CHFr. Perhaps the £3700 is without VAT. ?

03-23-2012, 07:54 AM	#17
sjwaldron Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,235	This has no consequence to me, but wow... if they are going to sell the cropped lens around the same price as the D-FA and only to foreigners... That's a real **** move on Pentax's part. I would think at that price they could manage to fill the entire frame of standard 645.

03-23-2012, 08:52 AM	#18
Ryan Tischer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Photos: Albums Posts: 458	I guess this sort of makes sense, but wish they would pass on the savings to the customer for the DA 645 25mm! I am curious how different the performance will be between the two lenses on the 645D?

03-23-2012, 09:07 AM	#19
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	Originally posted by veraikon Hmm Photoscala is normally correct: Perhaps the £3700 is without VAT. ? £3799 including VAT although described as DFA, Ffordes sell only stock imported for the UK: DFA 25mm F4 AL IF SDM AW by Pentax - Ffordes Photographic

03-23-2012, 09:59 AM	#20
Ed Hurst Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,657	Topace said above: "D-FA isn't quite compatible either. They lack aperture rings, and the 645 film cameras can set aperture electronically if in shutter priority mode, but not otherwise." Don't the latter film bodies (the N and Nii) have electronic aperture control in the body, making the first variant of this lens fully compatible? Obviously the original 645 film body lacks this... But it seems to me that the main point here is that this signals that there won't be a full frame 645Dii. BTW, note there is no crop-only version of the DFA 55mm

03-23-2012, 10:56 AM	#21
Thomas Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 434	You're right Ed, the N and NII allow electronic aperature control when the lens aperature is set to "A". I'm very concerned that the 25mm is now a D FA lens implying no full frame 645DII; Pentax made a mistake converting from FA to D FA in the 35mm lenses and now seem intent on repeating it.

03-23-2012, 03:50 PM	#22
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Originally posted by Ayoh It makes a bit more sense now: "Changes or improvements to the predecessor model: Due to the high manufacturing effort for a lens with an image field illumination for the analog Pentax 645 system has decided to offer this focal length in two variants. Option 1 - DFA 645 25 mm due to the large spread of the analog 645 system exclusively for the Japanese market Option 2 - DA 645 25 mm, this lens is intended for distribution outside of the Asian market" Hello Ayoh, where do you quote this from ? Last edited by Zygonyx; 03-23-2012 at 11:59 PM.

03-23-2012, 04:43 PM	#23
topace Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Stockholm Posts: 198	Originally posted by Ed Hurst Topace said above: "D-FA isn't quite compatible either. They lack aperture rings, and the 645 film cameras can set aperture electronically if in shutter priority mode, but not otherwise." Don't the latter film bodies (the N and Nii) have electronic aperture control in the body, making the first variant of this lens fully compatible? Obviously the original 645 film body lacks this... 645N can set the aperture when the lens is in A mode or lack aperture ring, yes. But unless I've missed some controls on my 645N (I didn't read the manual, since the camera's normally so easy to shoot with), it does not have an interface to set it in AV or M mode, only TV or P. It seems that MZ-S has the same problem in small format. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

03-24-2012, 02:54 AM	#25
veraikon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Inside the Blue Banana ;) Posts: 255	Originally posted by Zygonyx Hello Ayoh, where do you quote this from ? It is a translation from the photoscala article (en allemand ) - link above

03-25-2012, 10:46 AM	#26
Ryan Tischer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Photos: Albums Posts: 458	Originally posted by DandA Nikon migth not want to ofeend those that already spent money for the older lens I think you meant Pentax I doubt Nikon would mind if Pentax offended their customers!

03-25-2012, 12:59 PM	#27
drougge Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Malmö Photos: Gallery Posts: 787	Originally posted by Ed Hurst Don't the latter film bodies (the N and Nii) have electronic aperture control in the body, making the first variant of this lens fully compatible? Obviously the original 645 film body lacks this... It's the other way around actually, the original Pentax 645 can use aperture priority with the lens in A mode, 645N and NII can't. (See page 36 in the 645 manual, and page 40 in the 645N manual.) All of them can of course use lenses in A mode with shutter priority or in program mode. I don't think any of them can use the new lenses in bulb mode unless you want the smallest aperture.

03-25-2012, 10:22 PM	#28
DandA Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 129	Originally posted by Ryan Tischer I think you meant Pentax I doubt Nikon would mind if Pentax offended their customers! Hi Ryan, Yes, of course I meant "Pentax" not "Nikon" in my posting above. That wasn't the only necessary changes to my previous post, so I made a multitude of changes, and therefore reads much better and now makes sense. Thats what happens when I try posting from my tiny cell phone Thanks for pointing out the typo! Dave

03-28-2012, 05:09 PM	#29
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Smolk I read somewhere that the lens hood is now designed to cover the cropped sensor of the 645D, rather than the FF. That may influence flare-resistance of course. More ominously, perhaps the move implies that plans for a FF sensor have been shelved. Actually, it might as well indicate the oposite. It may be that Pentax have figured out that this lens do not meet the standard for an FF 645 sensors (eg edge definition), and instead of giving the lens a bad reputation, they marked it as for cropped sensors only (the need for a 25mm on a FF 645 is debatable as it is extremely wide). Otherwise, it would be weird to keep the D-FA label on the new 90mm if there were no FF in the plans....Why not call all 645 lenses DA then?

03-28-2012, 05:11 PM	#30
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Ayoh It makes a bit more sense now: "Changes or improvements to the predecessor model: Due to the high manufacturing effort for a lens with an image field illumination for the analog Pentax 645 system has decided to offer this focal length in two variants. Option 1 - DFA 645 25 mm due to the large spread of the analog 645 system exclusively for the Japanese market Option 2 - DA 645 25 mm, this lens is intended for distribution outside of the Asian market" Doesn't make much sense really as they sell both at the same price. Why not sell the D-FA in all markeds?