Ken Rockwell is Wrong

**Ed Hurst** · 05-07-2012, 03:55 PM

I agree with the points made about the quality of analysis and comment (and the related points about how it constitutes a deliberate business model into which we are playing with this thread) but am I alone in thinking that perhaps it was not ideal to post a thread in which a named individual is called an idiot?

phonoline · 05-08-2012, 05:07 AM - **1 Like**

Right on, Ed. It does say a lot about people, though, when they publicly denounce others

atlnq9 · 05-08-2012, 09:50 AM

Some people have the approach of don't ever hurt anybodies feelings; lets all keep everybody happy and let the idiots eventually shoot themselves with their shortcomings because everybody kept calling them great.

Others just say it how they see it, no lies, no talking behind their back...

I personally hate people that never express crtisism. So in that regards Ken gets a couple points. He just does it wrong. If he was a real serious reviewer Nikon, Canon, Sony, Mamiya, etc. would ask him to test cameras. Rather than writting reviews of the camera from a picture of the camera, not even from pictures taken by the camera system.

If you can honestly tell me that you have never said somebody is stupid before in public (by definition a group of people) then I will listen to what you have to say. Otherwise I don't know that you have much grounds to stand on. BTW, I think every politician has been called an idiot, they even call each other idiots... Would you rather the word be nincompoop?

Ryan Tischer · 05-08-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by atlnq9

Others just say it how they see it, no lies, no talking behind their back

I think it's important that people are educated as to who is a reliable soure of info and who is not. When someone puts themselves into the public eye and does so by intentially trying to create controversy by writing inaccurate reviews, I not only think it's okay to call them out on it, but the right thing to do. In this case, I think the term "idiot" isn't all that off base.

It would be different if the person was not trying to draw attention to themselves and just minding their own business...or if they had some integrity.

**Ed Hurst** · 05-08-2012, 03:37 PM - **2 Likes**

Interesting that in order to respond to my point, you feel a need to set up a false dichotomy between 'telling the truth, hurting people's feelings, etc.' on the one hand and 'let's keep everybody happy, telling lies, talking behind people's backs' on the other. I am not actually advocating either of these things, because there are other options. It is possible to counter the points made by Mr. Rockwell, and indeed his whole approach, even to describe his actions as idiotic, without name calling. I am certainly not suggesting that we should 'never express criticism' - far from it (as my message demonstrates in fact, I am quite prepared to express criticism). Indeed the criticisms (the substance of which, by the way, I largely agree with) would arguably have more force if they were made cogently and without being abusive. I too think it is important to educate and inform about who is a reliable source. But surely that point is made much more effectively with information and reason.

Ed (who owns and 645D and thinks the points made in Mr. Rockwell's review are absurd).

**Ed Hurst** · 05-08-2012, 03:46 PM

By the way, I have no wish to come over as sanctimonious here - I understand the frustration with the nonsense being spouted and the perception that he somehow 'gets away with it' or does it for cynical reasons while others seemingly lap it up.

Blue · 05-08-2012, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by phonoline

In the end (here it comes...) we are all like Ken Rockwell. Kind of. All we do is post our subjective views on things, esp. on Pentax equipment, in our free time. We are all idots. Haha

Be sure to make a donation to my paypal account . . .

Originally posted by Ed Hurst

By the way, I have no wish to come over as sanctimonious here - I understand the frustration with the nonsense being spouted and the perception that he somehow 'gets away with it' or does it for cynical reasons while others seemingly lap it up.

it is a source of income for him. The irony is that on the page he slams on the 645D, he asks for a donation. The argument could be made that he is a professional slammer.

sarcasm

wlachan · 05-08-2012, 10:13 PM

The world is full of scam artists. He may be ridiculous AFA some of his opinions are concerned, but he knows how to generate profit, and you just helped him out.

phonoline · 05-09-2012, 04:11 AM - **1 Like**

Who cares anyway? So what if he makes profit? Are you obliged to pay? No. Do you have to read the site? No.
On here you will find enough people like Ken Rockwell who unsolicitedly offer their very subjective/personal views on cameras, scanners etcpp and you get pissed off because someone out there insults your beloved 645D?! Give me a break. There are hundreds of reviews on the 645D over the internet and not all of them are great. Get real.

Alex who owns a 645D and who doesn't give a shit about Rockwell's review

**Ed Hurst** · 05-09-2012, 04:28 AM

Crisply put - I quite agree!

Blue · 05-09-2012, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by wlachan

The world is full of scam artists. He may be ridiculous AFA some of his opinions are concerned, but he knows how to generate profit, and you just helped him out.

Only if someone donates to his "PayPal" account. If people read this thread, do you really think it helps his case regarding donations?

Todd Adamson · 05-09-2012, 07:49 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Blue

Only if someone donates to his "PayPal" account. If people read this thread, do you really think it helps his case regarding donations?

There is no doubt. Pentax Forums is a huge, active site with a high page rank, and conversations like this provide significant Google juice to KR, thereby leading to traffic. Is someone reading this conversation going to go directly to his site and donate? Probably not. But simply by virtue of having the conversation, we positively affect his site's appearance in search queries, and the donations (and more importantly, I'm guessing, clicks on affiliate links) increase in direct proportion to traffic. I'm quite sure that KR smiles deviously every time he sees a thread like this. This is a solid case of "any publicity is good publicity."

Blue · 05-09-2012, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Todd Adamson

There is no doubt. Pentax Forums is a huge, active site with a high page rank, and conversations like this provide significant Google juice to KR, thereby leading to traffic. Is someone reading this conversation going to go directly to his site and donate? Probably not. But simply by virtue of having the conversation, we positively affect his site's appearance in search queries, and the donations (and more importantly, I'm guessing, clicks on affiliate links) increase in direct proportion to traffic. I'm quite sure that KR smiles deviously every time he sees a thread like this. This is a solid case of "any publicity is good publicity."

The OP should go back and edit his post and use the Hide feature so that only those logged into this site can see the link.

normhead · 05-09-2012, 07:55 AM - **1 Like**

At this point I kinda feel sorry for Ken. I'm an idiot too from time to time, but it's obvious enough from my posts, I don't need someone else pointing it out to 30,000 readers. Although, if I had a site with those google ads that pay you 5 cents every time someone clicks on an ad, I might post a "Norm Head is an idiot" thread myself, or even a "Norm Head is a genius", or any topic that might convince folks to click on my site. After all, 5 cents is 5 cents.

Todd Adamson · 05-09-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by normhead

At this point I kinda feel sorry for Ken. I'm an idiot too from time to time, but it's obvious enough from my posts, I don't need someone else pointing it out to 30,000 readers. Although, if I had a site with those google ads that pay you 5 cents every time someone clicks on an ad, I might post a "Norm Head is an idiot" thread myself, or even a "Norm Head is a genius", or any topic that might convince folks to click on my site. After all, 5 cents is 5 cents.

Spoken like a true idiot.

Haha, J/K man, I LOL'd at your post.

05-09-2012, 04:11 AM - 1 Like	#69
phonoline Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Hamburg Posts: 267	Who cares anyway? So what if he makes profit? Are you obliged to pay? No. Do you have to read the site? No. On here you will find enough people like Ken Rockwell who unsolicitedly offer their very subjective/personal views on cameras, scanners etcpp and you get pissed off because someone out there insults your beloved 645D?! Give me a break. There are hundreds of reviews on the 645D over the internet and not all of them are great. Get real. Alex who owns a 645D and who doesn't give a shit about Rockwell's review Last edited by phonoline; 05-09-2012 at 04:17 AM.

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05-07-2012, 03:55 PM	#61
Ed Hurst Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,657	I agree with the points made about the quality of analysis and comment (and the related points about how it constitutes a deliberate business model into which we are playing with this thread) but am I alone in thinking that perhaps it was not ideal to post a thread in which a named individual is called an idiot?

05-08-2012, 05:07 AM - 1 Like	#62
phonoline Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Hamburg Posts: 267	Right on, Ed. It does say a lot about people, though, when they publicly denounce others

05-08-2012, 09:50 AM	#63
atlnq9 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Arizona Photos: Albums Posts: 330 Original Poster	Some people have the approach of don't ever hurt anybodies feelings; lets all keep everybody happy and let the idiots eventually shoot themselves with their shortcomings because everybody kept calling them great. Others just say it how they see it, no lies, no talking behind their back... I personally hate people that never express crtisism. So in that regards Ken gets a couple points. He just does it wrong. If he was a real serious reviewer Nikon, Canon, Sony, Mamiya, etc. would ask him to test cameras. Rather than writting reviews of the camera from a picture of the camera, not even from pictures taken by the camera system. If you can honestly tell me that you have never said somebody is stupid before in public (by definition a group of people) then I will listen to what you have to say. Otherwise I don't know that you have much grounds to stand on. BTW, I think every politician has been called an idiot, they even call each other idiots... Would you rather the word be nincompoop?

05-08-2012, 09:57 AM	#64
Ryan Tischer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Photos: Albums Posts: 458	Originally posted by atlnq9 Others just say it how they see it, no lies, no talking behind their back I think it's important that people are educated as to who is a reliable soure of info and who is not. When someone puts themselves into the public eye and does so by intentially trying to create controversy by writing inaccurate reviews, I not only think it's okay to call them out on it, but the right thing to do. In this case, I think the term "idiot" isn't all that off base. It would be different if the person was not trying to draw attention to themselves and just minding their own business...or if they had some integrity.

05-08-2012, 03:37 PM - 2 Likes	#65
Ed Hurst Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,657	Interesting that in order to respond to my point, you feel a need to set up a false dichotomy between 'telling the truth, hurting people's feelings, etc.' on the one hand and 'let's keep everybody happy, telling lies, talking behind people's backs' on the other. I am not actually advocating either of these things, because there are other options. It is possible to counter the points made by Mr. Rockwell, and indeed his whole approach, even to describe his actions as idiotic, without name calling. I am certainly not suggesting that we should 'never express criticism' - far from it (as my message demonstrates in fact, I am quite prepared to express criticism). Indeed the criticisms (the substance of which, by the way, I largely agree with) would arguably have more force if they were made cogently and without being abusive. I too think it is important to educate and inform about who is a reliable source. But surely that point is made much more effectively with information and reason. Ed (who owns and 645D and thinks the points made in Mr. Rockwell's review are absurd).

05-08-2012, 03:46 PM	#66
Ed Hurst Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,657	By the way, I have no wish to come over as sanctimonious here - I understand the frustration with the nonsense being spouted and the perception that he somehow 'gets away with it' or does it for cynical reasons while others seemingly lap it up.

05-08-2012, 07:54 PM	#67
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by phonoline In the end (here it comes...) we are all like Ken Rockwell. Kind of. All we do is post our subjective views on things, esp. on Pentax equipment, in our free time. We are all idots. Haha Be sure to make a donation to my paypal account . . . Originally posted by Ed Hurst By the way, I have no wish to come over as sanctimonious here - I understand the frustration with the nonsense being spouted and the perception that he somehow 'gets away with it' or does it for cynical reasons while others seemingly lap it up. it is a source of income for him. The irony is that on the page he slams on the 645D, he asks for a donation. The argument could be made that he is a professional slammer.

05-08-2012, 10:13 PM	#68
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	The world is full of scam artists. He may be ridiculous AFA some of his opinions are concerned, but he knows how to generate profit, and you just helped him out.

05-09-2012, 04:28 AM	#70
Ed Hurst Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,657	Crisply put - I quite agree!

05-09-2012, 07:23 AM	#71
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by wlachan The world is full of scam artists. He may be ridiculous AFA some of his opinions are concerned, but he knows how to generate profit, and you just helped him out. Only if someone donates to his "PayPal" account. If people read this thread, do you really think it helps his case regarding donations?

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05-09-2012, 07:49 AM - 1 Like	#72
Todd Adamson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 722	Originally posted by Blue Only if someone donates to his "PayPal" account. If people read this thread, do you really think it helps his case regarding donations? There is no doubt. Pentax Forums is a huge, active site with a high page rank, and conversations like this provide significant Google juice to KR, thereby leading to traffic. Is someone reading this conversation going to go directly to his site and donate? Probably not. But simply by virtue of having the conversation, we positively affect his site's appearance in search queries, and the donations (and more importantly, I'm guessing, clicks on affiliate links) increase in direct proportion to traffic. I'm quite sure that KR smiles deviously every time he sees a thread like this. This is a solid case of "any publicity is good publicity."

05-09-2012, 07:54 AM	#73
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Todd Adamson There is no doubt. Pentax Forums is a huge, active site with a high page rank, and conversations like this provide significant Google juice to KR, thereby leading to traffic. Is someone reading this conversation going to go directly to his site and donate? Probably not. But simply by virtue of having the conversation, we positively affect his site's appearance in search queries, and the donations (and more importantly, I'm guessing, clicks on affiliate links) increase in direct proportion to traffic. I'm quite sure that KR smiles deviously every time he sees a thread like this. This is a solid case of "any publicity is good publicity." The OP should go back and edit his post and use the Hide feature so that only those logged into this site can see the link.

05-09-2012, 07:55 AM - 1 Like	#74
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	At this point I kinda feel sorry for Ken. I'm an idiot too from time to time, but it's obvious enough from my posts, I don't need someone else pointing it out to 30,000 readers. Although, if I had a site with those google ads that pay you 5 cents every time someone clicks on an ad, I might post a "Norm Head is an idiot" thread myself, or even a "Norm Head is a genius", or any topic that might convince folks to click on my site. After all, 5 cents is 5 cents.

05-09-2012, 10:26 AM	#75
Todd Adamson Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 722	Originally posted by normhead At this point I kinda feel sorry for Ken. I'm an idiot too from time to time, but it's obvious enough from my posts, I don't need someone else pointing it out to 30,000 readers. Although, if I had a site with those google ads that pay you 5 cents every time someone clicks on an ad, I might post a "Norm Head is an idiot" thread myself, or even a "Norm Head is a genius", or any topic that might convince folks to click on my site. After all, 5 cents is 5 cents. Spoken like a true idiot. Haha, J/K man, I LOL'd at your post.