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08-06-2012, 06:42 AM   #16
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Thanks for the answer! I have not yet checked against a handheld meter. I will now finish my roll with the 'proper' way of AUTO-metering and see how the outcome of the film will be.

So you calibrated your TTL and are now only metering with it or are you as well using a handheld meter? Any recommendations or advice which works better? Could you also answer my question:

The only thing I am really concerned about is how to meter proper using MAN - would a handheld or external light meter be ok with that?

Thanks in advance!





08-06-2012, 06:49 AM   #17
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Actually that question is not right anymore, I have come a little further already...

I would like to know if I could meter with a handheld leaving the lever always on MAN - and if so, how to meter with a handheld (concern about f-stops beeing different in medium format vs. 35mm).
08-06-2012, 08:05 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Josias Quote
I would like to know if I could meter with a handheld leaving the lever always on MAN - and if so, how to meter with a handheld (concern about f-stops beeing different in medium format vs. 35mm).
The f-stops are the same from 135 format to Medium to large. Leaving the lens set to MAN position is possible to do with no issues, but do you really need to constantly view the depth of field? I'm sure you have a reason, but just to make clear that the camera will shoot at the proper aperture you set when in AUTO.

Just to mention... f-stops in reality and the science of it all are the ratio of numbers to the distance or length of the lens based on the opening set by the shutter. If a beginner, you'll not find this interesting yet and so you'll not need to think about this. This fact of how it is calculated is consistent to any size lens to any size format of film and will make other method of calculation work for trick/complex exposures. So to say simply, your hand-held meter will work on any camera as long as the camera itself is built to adhere to the stands... 99.999% do.

Last edited by MysteryOnion; 08-06-2012 at 08:10 AM.
08-06-2012, 08:39 PM   #19
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Obviously the P67 only meters effectively to its limit: meter with a hand-held meter below the last Tv on the P67, that being 1 second. This implies placing the camera in B (bulb) mode for exposures that are longer.

The P67 uses a reflective averaging meter; this is not the same as the deadly accurate (when used competently) spot metering in mixed or contrasty light (where a spot meter is very useful to measure individual luminances within the scene e.g. shadow/highlight, spectrals and mid-tones. There are lots of very useful skills to be refined with manual (hand-held) metering, including spot (additive, subtractive, mid-tone bias), incident (again, additive, subtractive) and baseline meter caliibration to take into account of polarisers, red, green or blue filters (typically 2.0 for polarisers, but varies with illumination)... and still more skills if you hook up the P67 for studio flash work.

Experimenting with a hand-held meter (set to 0.5 steps, which matches the P67 Avs) will guide you as to what works and what doesn't, but very especially the importance of multi-spot / averaged metering to nail exposures — particularly with reversal films (not so critical with negative films). In good light the P67 meter delivers 95% of the time; what I'm pointing out is when you go shooting in low light (rainforests, with a polarisers, as I routinely do in my work) you won't have the P67 meter to do the work for you.

The MAN / AUTO lever on the SMC 67 lenses is for stop-down metering e.g. macro work; a great deal of the time it's unnecessary to use it (other than checking depth of field, which can be useful) and not sure why you would want to meter like this.

08-07-2012, 08:45 AM   #20
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Just to clarify...

Tv is Time-volume or sometimes Time-value depending on point of view, it means Shutter speed.
Av is of course Aperture-volume or Aperture-value.

As Silent Street is pointing out...

Metering by the TTL-prism is an average of the light coming through the lens and through the prism. Two photocells are arranged next to the viewfinder are to give make a wide sampling of that light. Depending on bright bits and dark areas of what gets into the reading area, it will impact the total reading that the circuit will respond to. So if a very shiny point is within your subject view, it may wildly through off the metering results.

A hand-held meter that is designed to read in 'Incident' and 'Reflective' will almost equal the averaging solution of your TTL, but you have the ability to make more particular readings with a hand-held over a locked view of a TTL meter. You could pan/scan/hold-off to exclude with a TTL, however, that can be very clumsy. All this is in the subject of 'metering techniques' and I'm sure Silent Street and others will have much to share on that.

As Silent Street mentions...

Spot meters, they give you more control over specific points of metering and allowing your to take different samples within the view of and on your subject at very select points that you are intending to photograph. Then you would use your readings to decide on how to weigh your exposure... i.e.: I have such a meter and have used it to sample a person's face to gain a more careful exposure over the bright objects and sky light that would over power the actual read I would get from my TTL.


QuoteOriginally posted by Silent Street Quote
The MAN / AUTO lever on the SMC 67 lenses is for stop-down metering e.g. macro work; a great deal of the time it's unnecessary to use it (other than checking depth of field, which can be useful) and not sure why you would want to meter like this.
As Silent Street is wondering and I would say too... it is trickier to shoot if you are selecting apertures greater than f5.6 while in MAN. and at f8 or f11 the dark cast would be very disconcerting for me to try and shoot with ease.
08-07-2012, 11:43 AM   #21
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Sunny 16

You can give your meter a "sanity check" by metering a landscape outdoors on a sunny day, avoiding any large very dark or very light objects in the frame. Or use an 18% gray card. If you set your aperture to f/16 and your shutter speed to 1/iso your light meter should be pretty close to centered.

Also remember always to detatch the lens before mounting the metered prism.

Sterling
08-07-2012, 02:56 PM   #22
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Ok, thank you all! You already helped me a lot and I see that there will be some time ahead of me before I get the metering down... The outcome of the roll I shot was ok..., not perfectly exposed but well, didn't expect much more from my first try.

I think I will get a hendheld and try to get used to the combination, find my way of getting a good exposure in my sense - I think this just takes some time and sometimes its luck to be perfectly confident with the exposure.

Well, so much to learn about film and medium format, if you have a serious interest in getting a high quality out of your images, talking technically. Digital is so much easier, but also less valuable (quality).

BTW: Any recommendations on lenses that don't or almost don't distort? (Or should I better start a new post? )

I will try that sanity check...

Regards!
08-07-2012, 03:32 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Josias Quote
I see, its not all that simple, regading the aperture values in MF and lightmeters normally working with 35mm values, is that correct?

So basically I just want to figure out how to meter properly in the best way possible (external device better than TTL?)

Just for my understanding on metering in AUTO: First, I could focus in AUTO, giving me all the light, than I could switch to MAN setting my desired aperture and checking for the actual outcome of the DOF, now I would change back to AUTO and do the metering setting only the shutter speed - would I now have a correct metering given that the lens is an auto lens and that it is conected properly to the lever of the body?

If the TTL meter is working correctly (e,.g, based on good exposures you are getting in everyday situations), let the camera do the metering for you, assuming you have a knowledge of when to hedge the meter's reading above the centreline or below it, or not at all, based on your assessment of conditions. Beyond the meter's 1 second capability, use a hand-held meter with the camera in bulb. That's all.

The manual/auto lever should really be used instantly to assess DofF, then released back to Auto. I do not see any benefit in placing it in manual when metering. On SMC 67 f4 lenses, especially with a polariser, the viewfinder is very dark, and checking DofF is quite challenging. This situation is the same for any other lens, especially worse from f5.6 onward.

08-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #24
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What just crossed my mind was: why not simply use a DSLR to meter and to give previews on exposure, that way you would get an idea of the outcome and could adjust in the moment to your preference! Am I missing something here or am I right?
08-07-2012, 03:52 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Silent Street Quote

The manual/auto lever should really be used instantly to assess DofF, then released back to Auto. I do not see any benefit in placing it in manual when metering. On SMC 67 f4 lenses, especially with a polariser, the viewfinder is very dark, and checking DofF is quite challenging. This situation is the same for any other lens, especially worse from f5.6 onward.
I already found out that I won't need to check constantly for DOF - I was just used to the way DSLR-Systems work on that matter...
08-07-2012, 04:33 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Josias Quote
What just crossed my mind was: why not simply use a DSLR to meter and to give previews...
"The advanced light meter" I would say to go for it.

Also, as a learning tool learning about exposures. Test settings on the dSLR in manual mode and see if you were correct. Also, take advantage of the Spot meter mode if it has one. My K20D is sometimes pressed into service if the lighting conditions need a little planning... this is how I sometimes do it. Most of the time my trusty Pentax Spotmeter V is with me and "Sunny 16" or I go wild and let lady latitude find my picture for me... only 2% of the time.
08-07-2012, 05:34 PM   #27
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Now than, that's what I will do! (I had the feeling that 7D would be good for something... )

If that Spotmeter V wouldn't be so darn expensive!

Thanks for the response!
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