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09-10-2012, 04:51 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Tischer Quote
BTW, I don't follow other MF companies very closely, but would this be the first ever medium format lens with image stabilization?
Yes. And the price is only $4500

09-10-2012, 06:13 PM   #17
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Just read the official announcement and it looks like this lens will cover the full frame on 645. This speaks that to say the least, Pentax isn't scrapping the possibility of going with a full frame 645D II (or III or IV, who knows) at some point in the forseeable future. After the 25mm DA came out for the cropped sensor on 645D it had some of us wondering if they had scrapped the idea of going full frame someday.
09-10-2012, 08:14 PM   #18
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yay! it has image stabilization.. i'm the first in line buy this lens..
09-10-2012, 08:38 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by desertscape Quote
Here's an interesting price comparison-- The 80mm Zeiss Planar f/2.8 HFT EL for the Rollei 6001, 6003 etc. goes for $2050 new. If the Pentax 90mm in question is indeed $5000, they are pricing themselves out of the business.
How is the AF, weather sealing, lens coatings, close focus, and image stabilization on that old Planar design? And where can I buy a new Rollei 6000 series cameras? Haven't they all been discontinued?


Last edited by Yamanobori; 09-10-2012 at 08:59 PM.
09-10-2012, 08:40 PM   #20
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this might be the first medium-format lens with image stabilization?
09-10-2012, 09:00 PM   #21
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Yes, I think it is the first stabilized MF optic. That should be a nice boost for anyone who uses this lens, on top of a reasonably fast aperture. I'm interested to see it get into the market and see how it performs, since I hand-hold my 645D all the time and miss the stabilization. I'll probably keep my 645 A 120mm f/4, 67 90mm f/2.8 and 67 105mm f/2.4, because I really like all of them. But this new entry piques my interest.

The downside, of course, is that it implies we're not going to see in-body stabilization in a future 645D sequel, at least not any time soon. If we were, I can't see Pentax designing in-lens stabilization for this one... what, just to please existing 645D or older 645 film shooters? Don't think so -- it signals a strategy to keep stabilization in the lens. At the kind of prices we're seeing for the new 645 lens designs, it's going to put a further dent in the affordability and/or utility of the system for anyone more budget-minded. I say that as somebody who has sprung for a pair of 645D bodies so far, a DA 25mm, a "new old stock" FA* 300mm and some other bits & bobs to go with all my bargains from eBay and KEH. I don't question the Pentax's value in the MF context. But I was really hoping for in-body stabilization (among other hopes for a 645D II) because I'd like the edge in low light situations in several useful focal lengths, without having to extend my eventual retirement by another 20 years.

Oh well... it's only money.
09-10-2012, 09:18 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Royce Howland Quote
Oh well... it's only money.
That's the spirit!
09-11-2012, 10:20 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Royce Howland Quote
Yes, I think it is the first stabilized MF optic. That should be a nice boost for anyone who uses this lens, on top of a reasonably fast aperture. I'm interested to see it get into the market and see how it performs, since I hand-hold my 645D all the time and miss the stabilization. I'll probably keep my 645 A 120mm f/4, 67 90mm f/2.8 and 67 105mm f/2.4, because I really like all of them. But this new entry piques my interest.

The downside, of course, is that it implies we're not going to see in-body stabilization in a future 645D sequel, at least not any time soon. If we were, I can't see Pentax designing in-lens stabilization for this one... what, just to please existing 645D or older 645 film shooters? Don't think so -- it signals a strategy to keep stabilization in the lens. At the kind of prices we're seeing for the new 645 lens designs, it's going to put a further dent in the affordability and/or utility of the system for anyone more budget-minded. I say that as somebody who has sprung for a pair of 645D bodies so far, a DA 25mm, a "new old stock" FA* 300mm and some other bits & bobs to go with all my bargains from eBay and KEH. I don't question the Pentax's value in the MF context. But I was really hoping for in-body stabilization (among other hopes for a 645D II) because I'd like the edge in low light situations in several useful focal lengths, without having to extend my eventual retirement by another 20 years.

Oh well... it's only money.


Royce:

Given that the lens is full frame and that there is a rumor of a 645DII with a 48x36mm sensor, it seems Pentax plans on ever larger sensors for which in-body IS is just not practical.

Tom

Why would you want to retire anyway?

09-11-2012, 11:50 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Tischer Quote
Just read the official announcement and it looks like this lens will cover the full frame on 645. This speaks that to say the least, Pentax isn't scrapping the possibility of going with a full frame 645D II (or III or IV, who knows) at some point in the forseeable future. After the 25mm DA came out for the cropped sensor on 645D it had some of us wondering if they had scrapped the idea of going full frame someday.
...but it certainly would make the owners of that DA lens pissed off when they find out that the lens doesn't perform on their new FF 645D...

Anyway, I have a hard time making sense of this. Why the DA naming of the 25mm if FF 645 is coming?
Why optical SR? Is Pentax planning to compete head on with FF by making it more of an allrounder? By why then the high prices effectively putting it in another league than FF? The SR is probably the reason for the 90mm high price...
09-11-2012, 11:53 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Royce Howland Quote
The downside, of course, is that it implies we're not going to see in-body stabilization in a future 645D sequel, at least not any time soon. If we were, I can't see Pentax designing in-lens stabilization for this one... what, just to please existing 645D or older 645 film shooters? Don't think so -- it signals a strategy to keep stabilization in the lens.
I don't think it is practical to move the large MF sensors. Too much mass to move too large distances. I suspect Pentax will adopt optical SR if they ever release an FF K-mount camera...
09-11-2012, 12:13 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I don't think it is practical to move the large MF sensors. Too much mass to move too large distances. I suspect Pentax will adopt optical SR if they ever release an FF K-mount camera...
Well, Sony manages to build an FF with sensor shift shake reduction so Pentax should be capable of the same thing.
09-11-2012, 12:19 PM   #27
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nikon claims you get better performance if stabilization is on the lens..
09-11-2012, 01:15 PM   #28
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It would be curious if they claimed anything else as that's what they sell.
09-11-2012, 02:06 PM   #29
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If Pentax is going to keep commanding these high prices for lenses they need to make sure a few things happen:

1) Lenses perform up to the industry standard for comparable priced new medium format glass. Sure they have got in lens SR which is industry class but if the lens doesn't match Leica S and Hassy IQ then the SR is pointless. If it does then they have produced a lens with similar value to the competitors.

2) They need a truly ground up designed body. A bargain body priced together from old 645 design with AF and internals from an APS-C camera was great to get people in with the existing bargain lenses. However, if they are commanding industry comparable prices for new lenses and don't work on a body to match they are heading off wrong. Sure the 645D leads in ergonomics, battery life, focus points, etc. But all the focus points are in the very center so they might as well only use one. The shutter is more prone to vibration than the Hassy body and the Leica S2. This needs improvement because even with top glass and in lens SR it is pointless if you can't get a clinical sharp image due to vibrations.

3) I forsee a lot of quality control and design precision issues with in camera movement of a 645 sensor for shake reduction. This is likely why they have decided to go with in lens SR. I hope they can make it work well on their first ever attempt at in lens shake reduction.

Now this is difficult to all bring together and keep a market separation against the 35mm offerings. I think this will be the biggest struggle Pentax will face; balancing lens and body price/design against the separation from 35mm keeping a user base... I hope to find out more about the performance of this lens and the potential of a new body in the coming 6 months. Hopefully Ricoh and get products out the door faster now. The 25mm was extreamly slow to market and the first 645D was in the pipeline for a very long time. I need to know the intentions and performance of the new Pentax 645 products. If the performance and price stays where I have seen it the other MFD offering are looking more and more appealing especially with the rumored long focal length f4.0 Leica plans for the S line.
09-11-2012, 02:09 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by acarlay Quote
nikon claims you get better performance if stabilization is on the lens..
*cough*

Nikon would claim that so they don't use IBIS and end up making their stabilized lenses redundant.

My understanding is that IBIS is equal to ILIS up to telephoto ranges of 300mm+
But ILIS helps AF performance (by stabilizing the image to the AF sensor), video performance (so you can see what you record). ILIS can make people "seasick" though.
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