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11-08-2012, 12:41 PM - 2 Likes   #1
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Takumar 6X7 on a Speed Graphic

I am presently limited to 6 by 9 by the darkroom.
6 by 9 needs a wider angle lens than the Optar 135 mm f/4.7 on my Graphlex.
But wide angle large format lenses are way over budget.
Desertscape on the forum here kindly advised that the Pentax 67 lenses might just cover the 6 by 9.
So I purchased a very nice Takumar 6X7 1:4.5 75 mm from KEH for $140 shipped.

Made a lens board of sandwiched aluminum plates supplied already cut slightly oversize and radiused from Stainless supply of Monroe NC
Cut a 67 bayonet mount in the lensboard on the lathe.

I just shot the first roll of Kodak 400 TMY-2 and i will develop next Saturday
Also have purchased some Fuji Pro 400 to try.

I am using the little M43 camera with the Pentax 40 mm pancake as a spot meter.
The image on the ground-glass is very good, the lens appears to cover the 6 by 9 corners and might even have a little allowance for some rise.
With a register of 84.95mm the lens is well back on the rails, so there is only room for about 10 mm of rise and a few degrees of up tilt.

the lens is set at infinity with rails locked to allow use of the distance scale on the Takumar.

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11-08-2012, 01:18 PM   #2
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How are you operateing the non-exixting shutter?
11-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #3
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Hi, Klaus
The camera is a Graflex Speed Graphic. It has 2 shutters, normally the one on the lens is used. With the Tak 6X7 having no shutter, the rear curtain shutter is used.
Before cocking the shutter it is necessary to remember to inset the dark slide into the film holder!
11-08-2012, 01:38 PM   #4
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The lens looks pretty cool on that camera.

I don't know all the details needed here. But at first thought I'd say you're evaluation of a 4x5 lens as an option wasn't given enough consideration. A project of that size a few hundred dollar difference seems like it washes out in the end especially if any movement was an objective of the project.

I'm looking forward to seeing the results.


Last edited by tuco; 11-08-2012 at 01:54 PM.
11-08-2012, 09:19 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
The lens looks pretty cool on that camera.

I don't know all the details needed here. But at first thought I'd say you're evaluation of a 4x5 lens as an option wasn't given enough consideration. A project of that size a few hundred dollar difference seems like it washes out in the end especially if any movement was an objective of the project.

I'm looking forward to seeing the results.
Yes, looks cool and $140 is much less than what you would pay for a 75mm 4x5 lens, but there is the rub. Image circle for the Pentax lens is probably a little shy in terms of coverage.


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11-08-2012, 10:45 PM   #6
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Hi, Tuco and Steve
Yes a post 1960's wide angle coated with a shutter would be good for me but they go for US$450 to $1000 or more.
I have made the P67 bayonet lens board now so if this works I can look for a P67 105 mm or so in my hobby budget for next year.
I saw today a Pentax 645 lens with a shutter/ flash X sync. Did Pentax do that in P67 ?

I have tested the Graflex rear shutter with a phototransistor biased in active region and oscilloscope and it seems quite accurate.

The old phenolic dark slide cracked and I tried to make one out of a cd cover but that was too thick,
so I found a drywall trowel in the basement with a 0.5 mm stainless steel blade- some cutting and sanding- better than original!
I have made a card board mask fitting 6 by 9 on the ground glass and the images looked OK.

Tonight I shot a roll of our house in TMY-2 sunny 16 (actually f/22) with about 10 mm of rise.
It is quite a chore to take a shot and I will set up some dividers in the TuffBox tool box
to hold the roll film back and the ground glass screen and the M43 bellwether alongside the tripod.

I can process 35 mm HP5+ with 100% success but I am not very happy about getting the 120 film into the spiral in the dark.

If you don't hear from me by next Sunday, I will be in deep trouble with this little project!
11-08-2012, 11:23 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by wombat2go Quote
Hi, Tuco
...
Yes a post 1960's wide angle coated with a shutter would be good for me but they go for US$450 to $1000 or more.
...
I saw today a Pentax 645 lens with a shutter/ flash X sync. Did Pentax do that in P67 ?
You mean a leaf shutter lens? Yes, a Takumar 90mm f2.8 LS and SMC 165mm f4 LS. Did you know before getting the Pentax 75mm if it would have coverage? I was just thinking that a 75mm/8 Super Angulon at keh.com for $365 may have been less risky if you were not sure.

The Graphlex now looks like it operates more like a 4x5 field camera than a handhold press camera with this new configuration.

QuoteQuote:
I can process 35 mm HP5+ with 100% success but I am not very happy about getting the 120 film into the spiral in the dark.
Would that be stainless steel reels? If so, I recommend sacrificing a 120 roll and practice it over and over in the light until you are confident. First with your eyes open and then closed. Push the film back and forth while winding it to feel it is not binding. You can also cut an approx 45 chamfer on the leading edge of the film.

Last edited by tuco; 11-09-2012 at 11:55 AM.
11-09-2012, 11:46 AM   #8
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Aaah !!
I could not get the 120 film on the reel .
I did 2 rolls, the first roll was out of a Nettar and I only just got it on the spiral, but it was binding all the way.
The film out of the Graflex, I could not start it so had to turn the light on and fogged it.
After that it was binding all the way.
I developed it and there are some area where the Graflex shots are correctly exposed
I had cut chamfers, and the reels were dry.
These are the plastic type reels with little stainless balls
They work fine on 35 mm which has sprocket holes, but not OK on the 120 film which has no sprocket holes, I think the film does not like bending over the little balls.

I think I will have to get a different type of reel.
Any suggestions will be appreciated

11-09-2012, 12:08 PM   #9
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I have only used SS reels my whole life. I can't comment about the other systems. All I can say is one time I picked up a new SS reel and it was nothing but problems trying to load. I ditched it and picked up a new Hewes brand reel and no problems. My other reels are over 20 years old. I don't know what brand they are. Otherwise, both 135 and 120 rolls are routine to load for me.

You know, where there is a turning lath there usually is a horizontal mill. If I had access to that machinery, I'd be building me a compact, handhold, P&S 4x5 camera among a ton of other things.

Last edited by tuco; 11-09-2012 at 12:30 PM.
11-09-2012, 12:42 PM   #10
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Thanks Tuco
I will try to get some stainless reels

Yes you read my mind. I don't have a mill except for a milling attachment on the lathe.
I have in mind as a future project to make a small aluminum box camera maybe just for the 84.95mm Pentax 6X7 register.
Using maybe the Takumar 90mm f2.8 LS ??

Using that P67 75mm yesterday, at f/11 to f/22 it hardly needs to be focussed.

Like my M43 with the Pentax 110 18 mm, that lens does not need to be focussed either.
11-09-2012, 12:54 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by wombat2go Quote
...
Using maybe the Takumar 90mm f2.8 LS ??
Take note the 6x7 Tak 90mm leaf shutter lens will operate in pure leaf shutter mode but only for shutter speeds between 1/60 - 1/500.

QuoteQuote:
Using that P67 75mm yesterday, at f/11 to f/22 it hardly needs to be focussed.
Yes. I can put on a 45mm on my Pentax 67 or a 43mm on my Mamyia 7II and on a sunny day neither have to focus or meter a scene. I have a development technique that will yield good exposure for any direction you point the camera on a sunny day all with the same shutter speed and f-stop. For me, that digital camera as a meter would take the fun out of film photography
11-09-2012, 01:24 PM   #12
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Also note with SS reels some films are easier to load than others. Thin, curly films are more difficult to get started but doable. Thicker base films are much easier. And some days it clips in and goes the first wrap with no binding and you're done in seconds. While other days it takes multiple attempts at getting it started. That is how it is for me, anyway.
11-09-2012, 04:38 PM   #13
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Two note to the discussion:

Quality of the SS 120 reel makes a difference in ease of loading, Hewes/Nikor/Omega are some that I used and would recommend.

To use the P67 90/165 Leaf shutter lens you need to devise a way of tripping the shutter (actuate the diaphragm stop down lever)
11-09-2012, 06:39 PM   #14
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Hi Tuco and D W

Out of my reel malfunction today I got one damaged frame that tells me that the camera is light tight and shutter and lens are working OK.

This is a 4MB tif from the Epson V600 at 800 dpi of the full 6 by 9 , uncropped
https://www.box.com/s/7vcd3rw8qg0utw4bwuv3
The lens had about 10 mm of rise, so i would expect the tree at the top to be losing sharpness first by the image circle.


I think next step is to run some rolls of Fuji Pro 400 C41 and I will have to send to Dwaynes anyway as I am not set up for color.
And I will centre the lens and get used to it before thinking about another P67 lens.

Looking back, I have managed (with difficulty) to load film from the Nettar onto the spiral, but I had 2 failures of film from the Graflex.
The film in the Graflex is bent sharply back around the end rollers and i wonder if that is making it more difficult.
Or maybe its just a job for somebody with more nimble fingers!

Thanks!
11-09-2012, 06:39 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by D W Quote
To use the P67 90/165 Leaf shutter lens you need to devise a way of tripping the shutter (actuate the diaphragm stop down lever)
The 90mm has a cable release socket on the lens to trip the leaf shutter as well as manually doing it with the S-U lever on the lens.

Last edited by tuco; 11-09-2012 at 06:46 PM.
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