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Ken R · 04-05-2013, 05:07 AM

Which one LuLa or FM?

In FM people were curious to see more info since there is a VERY low population of MFdigital users that post there.

In LuLa there is a wide range of people from MFDB dealers to users, from pros to aficionados and people who have never even used a MFDB or camera but quite a few use the Phase Backs. No one seems to question the value of the 645D and its good overall performance. Its hard to beat.

So far I really like the camera. I used it yesterday during a paid corporate shooting job as a second camera for some shots. I only have the 55mm lens so I used it in certain situations but I got a good feel for it in mixed light with fluorescent, daylight and profoto flash light in the same shot (group shot, interiors), full daylight (exterior) and profoto lights only (portrait). I also used iso 100, 200 and 400 and even handheld exposures down to 1/15 of a second with good success (I was surprised).

I have to get used to working with the color. Its very different from the canon and it has a wider range of possibilities it seems. Camera daylight with balance and Lightroom daylight white balance is very different.

The lens is good and I really like that it focuses close. It is not a magical lens like the Canon 50mm f1.2L that I used yesterday as my main lens for portraits but its nice. I will explore the Pentax lens line a bit to see what I like.

**Digitalis** · 04-05-2013, 06:02 AM

Originally posted by Ken R

It is not a magical lens like the Canon 50mm f1.2L that I used yesterday as my main lens for portraits

As a 645D user myself I recommend the 150mm f/2.8, the newer D*FA 90mm f/2.8 macro OS is a very sharp lens but like its predecessor the 645 FA120mm f/4 macro, it does tend to have harsh bokeh.

For general purpose photography the 645 FA45-85mm f/4.5 coupled with the 645 FA80-160 f/4.5 are excellent zoom lenses - though my 80-160mm has problems focusing at the long end. Also the 645 FA150-300mm f/5.6 is also an excellent lens offering similar FOV to a 70-200mm f/2.8 Zoom lens.

delaphotography · 04-05-2013, 01:36 PM

Those shots look awesome! Thanks for posting that...they look really clean

Originally posted by Ken R

Here is a shot I just made (before and after adjustments in LR4). 15 second exposure (iso 100, 55mm DFA @ f11). It was windy and I used my small Gitzo tripod (GT1542T) but it still came out pretty sharp.

Ken R · 04-05-2013, 04:15 PM

Thx!

I just got the 45-85mm FA and the 120mm A. Wow, the 45-85 is solid. Seems awesome, took a few shots and the AF works very well. The 120 is manual obviously but really like the recessed front element.

One thing, I got the 45-85mm without the hood. You guys know where I can order one? I can just go with a 77mm generic rubber hood but if I can find the OEM one that would be great.

Ken R · 04-05-2013, 04:24 PM

Just looking at some images the 45-85 @ 45 is I think a hair sharper than the 55mm kit lens. Its very close. Both at f11. Build quality is better on the zoom and its reflected in its weight but handles great also.

**Digitalis** · 04-05-2013, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Ken R

Just looking at some images the 45-85 @ 45 is I think a hair sharper than the 55mm kit lens.

At the wide end that lens slightly sharper than the Phase one 45mm f/2.8* - which is rather spectacular because that lens is a design from Schneider, which is a lensmaker well known for their High performance cost-no-object large format lenses.

*Designed by Schnieder, Produced by Mamiya.The leaf shutter lenses for the phase one system are entirely made by Schneider - these leaf shutters can synch up to 1/1600th.

Ken R · 04-05-2013, 05:32 PM

I got the 45-85 mainly for landscape but so far seems like a spectacular all around lens. It has a bit of distortion @ 45mm but its easily corrected in lightroom automatically. I have been using lightroom for many years and its great that I can keep using it with this camera I have a huge library with about 70,000 images. I am doing all the processing in my MacB Pro and its pretty fast. No issues so far even when editing 16bit tiff in P shop.

Ken R · 04-05-2013, 07:19 PM

Made a few hours ago w/ the 45-85mm @ 45 (30sec f11 iso 100)

acarlay · 04-06-2013, 07:15 AM - **1 Like**

it's clear that in the first pics posted that the 5diii has more dynamic range than the 645D.. if you look closely at the sunset you can see alot more detail in/around the edges of the orange sun.. i always suspected the 645D didn't do well in this area as i always thought it did a little better than my D3 but not better than some of my later cameras like my d3s.. i love the 645D and when i shoot it i try not think of it's limitations but it's my fav camera so far -- medium format digital just gives me a different look than 35mm digital system..

Ken R · 04-06-2013, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by acarlay

it's clear that in the first pics posted that the 5diii has more dynamic range than the 645D.. if you look closely at the sunset you can see alot more detail in/around the edges of the orange sun.. i always suspected the 645D didn't do well in this area as i always thought it did a little better than my D3 but not better than some of my later cameras like my d3s.. i love the 645D and when i shoot it i try not think of it's limitations but it's my fav camera so far -- medium format digital just gives me a different look than 35mm digital system..

Looking at the raw images I say any differences in the area of the sun was more due to how the lens flared and handled that highlight in that area.

Anvh · 04-06-2013, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by acarlay

it's clear that in the first pics posted that the 5diii has more dynamic range than the 645D.. if you look closely at the sunset you can see alot more detail in/around the edges of the orange sun.. i always suspected the 645D didn't do well in this area as i always thought it did a little better than my D3 but not better than some of my later cameras like my d3s.. i love the 645D and when i shoot it i try not think of it's limitations but it's my fav camera so far -- medium format digital just gives me a different look than 35mm digital system..

DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side
645D is 1ev better actually

Ristretto · 04-06-2013, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

?.. the newer D*FA 90mm f/2.8 macro OS is a very sharp lens but like it's predecessor the 645 FA120mm f/4 macro, it it does tend to have harsh bokeh..

This I cannot confirm...

acarlay · 04-06-2013, 02:58 PM

it's very clear in this example.. the 5d3 has at least 1ev more highlight information than the 645D..

yes i've seen the scores on Dx0 but it doesn't square up to the example above..

acarlay · 04-06-2013, 03:00 PM

"Looking at the raw images I say any differences in the area of the sun was more due to how the lens flared and handled that highlight in that area."

if this is true then how come the contrast from both pictures look the same? unless you gave the 645D more contrast but if you didn't that i don't think flare was an issue when you took the pic.. well i do understand what you are saying that lens flare will smear highlight detail.. yes could be possible.

Ken R · 04-06-2013, 06:08 PM

Yes, the sun is basically a point of light. Different lenses handle points of light differently due to their particular optical and aperture design and materials. You see that a bit when shooting a city at night. I would have to perform a test for highlight recovery in the studio to confirm but my take is that its about equal on both cameras. In the shadows the 645D wins no question.

04-05-2013, 06:02 AM	#32
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,695	Originally posted by Ken R It is not a magical lens like the Canon 50mm f1.2L that I used yesterday as my main lens for portraits As a 645D user myself I recommend the 150mm f/2.8, the newer DFA 90mm f/2.8 macro OS is a very sharp lens but like its predecessor the 645 FA120mm f/4 macro, it does tend to have harsh bokeh. For general purpose photography the 645 FA45-85mm f/4.5 coupled with the 645 FA80-160 f/4.5 are excellent zoom lenses - though my 80-160mm has problems focusing at the long end. Also the 645 FA150-300mm f/5.6 is also an excellent lens offering similar FOV to a 70-200mm f/2.8 Zoom lens. Last edited by Digitalis; 04-07-2013 at 07:50 PM.*

04-05-2013, 05:15 PM	#36
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,695	Originally posted by Ken R Just looking at some images the 45-85 @ 45 is I think a hair sharper than the 55mm kit lens. At the wide end that lens slightly sharper than the Phase one 45mm f/2.8* - which is rather spectacular because that lens is a design from Schneider, which is a lensmaker well known for their High performance cost-no-object large format lenses. Designed by Schnieder, Produced by Mamiya.The leaf shutter lenses for the phase one system are entirely made by Schneider - these leaf shutters can synch up to 1/1600th. Last edited by Digitalis; 04-05-2013 at 08:32 PM.*

04-06-2013, 02:58 PM	#43
acarlay Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 90	it's very clear in this example.. the 5d3 has at least 1ev more highlight information than the 645D.. yes i've seen the scores on Dx0 but it doesn't square up to the example above.. Last edited by acarlay; 04-06-2013 at 03:10 PM.

04-06-2013, 03:00 PM	#44
acarlay Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 90	"Looking at the raw images I say any differences in the area of the sun was more due to how the lens flared and handled that highlight in that area." if this is true then how come the contrast from both pictures look the same? unless you gave the 645D more contrast but if you didn't that i don't think flare was an issue when you took the pic.. well i do understand what you are saying that lens flare will smear highlight detail.. yes could be possible. Last edited by acarlay; 04-06-2013 at 03:11 PM.

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04-05-2013, 05:07 AM	#31
Ken R Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 48 Original Poster	Which one LuLa or FM? In FM people were curious to see more info since there is a VERY low population of MFdigital users that post there. In LuLa there is a wide range of people from MFDB dealers to users, from pros to aficionados and people who have never even used a MFDB or camera but quite a few use the Phase Backs. No one seems to question the value of the 645D and its good overall performance. Its hard to beat. So far I really like the camera. I used it yesterday during a paid corporate shooting job as a second camera for some shots. I only have the 55mm lens so I used it in certain situations but I got a good feel for it in mixed light with fluorescent, daylight and profoto flash light in the same shot (group shot, interiors), full daylight (exterior) and profoto lights only (portrait). I also used iso 100, 200 and 400 and even handheld exposures down to 1/15 of a second with good success (I was surprised). I have to get used to working with the color. Its very different from the canon and it has a wider range of possibilities it seems. Camera daylight with balance and Lightroom daylight white balance is very different. The lens is good and I really like that it focuses close. It is not a magical lens like the Canon 50mm f1.2L that I used yesterday as my main lens for portraits but its nice. I will explore the Pentax lens line a bit to see what I like.

04-05-2013, 01:36 PM	#33
delaphotography Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 7	Those shots look awesome! Thanks for posting that...they look really clean Originally posted by Ken R Here is a shot I just made (before and after adjustments in LR4). 15 second exposure (iso 100, 55mm DFA @ f11). It was windy and I used my small Gitzo tripod (GT1542T) but it still came out pretty sharp.

04-05-2013, 04:15 PM	#34
Ken R Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 48 Original Poster	Thx! I just got the 45-85mm FA and the 120mm A. Wow, the 45-85 is solid. Seems awesome, took a few shots and the AF works very well. The 120 is manual obviously but really like the recessed front element. One thing, I got the 45-85mm without the hood. You guys know where I can order one? I can just go with a 77mm generic rubber hood but if I can find the OEM one that would be great.

04-05-2013, 04:24 PM	#35
Ken R Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 48 Original Poster	Just looking at some images the 45-85 @ 45 is I think a hair sharper than the 55mm kit lens. Its very close. Both at f11. Build quality is better on the zoom and its reflected in its weight but handles great also.

04-05-2013, 05:32 PM	#37
Ken R Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 48 Original Poster	I got the 45-85 mainly for landscape but so far seems like a spectacular all around lens. It has a bit of distortion @ 45mm but its easily corrected in lightroom automatically. I have been using lightroom for many years and its great that I can keep using it with this camera I have a huge library with about 70,000 images. I am doing all the processing in my MacB Pro and its pretty fast. No issues so far even when editing 16bit tiff in P shop.

04-06-2013, 07:15 AM - 1 Like	#39
acarlay Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 90	it's clear that in the first pics posted that the 5diii has more dynamic range than the 645D.. if you look closely at the sunset you can see alot more detail in/around the edges of the orange sun.. i always suspected the 645D didn't do well in this area as i always thought it did a little better than my D3 but not better than some of my later cameras like my d3s.. i love the 645D and when i shoot it i try not think of it's limitations but it's my fav camera so far -- medium format digital just gives me a different look than 35mm digital system..

04-06-2013, 07:33 AM	#40
Ken R Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 48 Original Poster	Originally posted by acarlay it's clear that in the first pics posted that the 5diii has more dynamic range than the 645D.. if you look closely at the sunset you can see alot more detail in/around the edges of the orange sun.. i always suspected the 645D didn't do well in this area as i always thought it did a little better than my D3 but not better than some of my later cameras like my d3s.. i love the 645D and when i shoot it i try not think of it's limitations but it's my fav camera so far -- medium format digital just gives me a different look than 35mm digital system.. Looking at the raw images I say any differences in the area of the sun was more due to how the lens flared and handled that highlight in that area.

04-06-2013, 08:25 AM	#41
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by acarlay it's clear that in the first pics posted that the 5diii has more dynamic range than the 645D.. if you look closely at the sunset you can see alot more detail in/around the edges of the orange sun.. i always suspected the 645D didn't do well in this area as i always thought it did a little better than my D3 but not better than some of my later cameras like my d3s.. i love the 645D and when i shoot it i try not think of it's limitations but it's my fav camera so far -- medium format digital just gives me a different look than 35mm digital system.. DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side 645D is 1ev better actually

04-06-2013, 09:03 AM	#42
Ristretto Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 159	Originally posted by Digitalis ?.. the newer DFA 90mm f/2.8 macro OS is a very sharp lens but like it's predecessor the 645 FA120mm f/4 macro, it it does tend to have harsh bokeh..* This I cannot confirm...

04-06-2013, 06:08 PM	#45
Ken R Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 48 Original Poster	Yes, the sun is basically a point of light. Different lenses handle points of light differently due to their particular optical and aperture design and materials. You see that a bit when shooting a city at night. I would have to perform a test for highlight recovery in the studio to confirm but my take is that its about equal on both cameras. In the shadows the 645D wins no question.

Just ordered the 645d

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