[tuco]

...
I shoot landscapes so others might find the 800 better suited for fast action, weddings, etc...

And extreme wide, telephoto and handhold work. Like you said, the 645D is a specialty camera. It's all a trade off. For a general purpose camera, the ability of the the D800/E to cover such a vast area of photographic genras is hard to beat.

[normhead]

And extreme wide, telephoto and handhold work. Like you said, the 645D is a specialty camera. It's all a trade off. For a general purpose camera, the ability of the the D800/E to cover such a vast area of photographic genras is hard to beat.

Please, many of us say the same thing about the D800, because we shoot APS-c. It is really funny watching FF guys use the same arguments against the 645 we use against the D800. It;s the same arguments, it's just a matter of when you chose to apply them.


But to answer the question, from which people seem to have strayed, I asked the Pentax guys about a new 645D and they said it's on a 5 year cycle. Last release was 2010 so 2015 would be right on schedule.

That's a little disappointing in that the D800 has cut into it's turf so early in it's cycle... but as any FF guy will tell you, those larger pixels and narrower DoF , 1.4 on FF is the same as 2.8 on MF and so on and so on. I'm expecting a full set of equivalency charts with spread sheets available for download etc, with the full wight of the argument in favour of MF. Come on now, fair is fair.

[tuco]

I shoot plenty of medium format, Norm. I'm still waiting to see a shot from your 645n.

[normhead]

I shoot plenty of medium format, Norm. I'm still waiting to see a shot from your 645n.

I was just thinking about taking it out today tuco... For years I had a Mamiya 645... I'm looking forward to it.

[tuco]

I was just thinking about taking it out today tuco... For years I had a Mamiya 645... I'm looking forward to it.

A notable difference between MFD and FF argument is a more tangible dividing line, IMHO. It go goes back before digital. IQ vs versatility appears to be just as true today as it was back in the film days. Only the gray areas has shifted. APS-C vs FF are found in versatile cameras. It a largely a matter of arguing lens perspective and IQ differences, a not so clear dividing line.

[Uluru]

But to answer the question, from which people seem to have strayed, I asked the Pentax guys about a new 645D and they said it's on a 5 year cycle. Last release was 2010 so 2015 would be right on schedule.

5 years? You mean five? That was an eternity even in film days. In 5 years, competitors who take 2-3 years cycle, conquer half the market and leaving you scratching your head ... I really hope those Pentax (US?) guys had no clue what they're talking about — as they usually do.

I mean, and I wonder, whether the Pentax Job Position Form lists the requirement "Must have intellectual capacity of a boiled potato".

[NotaxPen]

5 years? You mean five? That was an eternity even in film days. In 5 years, competitors who take 2-3 years cycle, conquer half the market and leaving you scratching your head ... I really hope those Pentax (US?) guys had no clue what they're talking about — as they usually do.

I mean, and I wonder, whether the Pentax Job Position Form lists the requirement "Must have intellectual capacity of a boiled potato".

Huh??? Original Pentax 645 came out in 1984, 645n came out in 1997, 13 years. Original 6x7 came out in 1969, second one in 1990, 21 years. 5 years sounds pretty fast by comparison to the film days.

[Uluru]

Huh??? Original Pentax 645 came out in 1984, 645n came out in 1997, 13 years. Original 6x7 came out in 1969, second one in 1990, 21 years. 5 years sounds pretty fast by comparison to the film days.

Not in digital. If your competition knows you're breathing in 5 years cycles, you're dead. Even in the MF world, which is always threatened by digital hi-end 135 format; if users know there is lack of MF development on all ends, they abandon it and switch to 135 format.
Unlike in film, problem with digital is that the 135 format and below are in constant flux and in rapid improvement technology change, and if the MF is stuck at some end, it rapidly loses the advantages. Pentax must upgrade its 645, this year, yes, even if it means bribing Sony to produce special and expensive chips (scale up current tech 135 format sensors to MF size) just for them.

[672]

I hope they announce this 645D2 soon , because the time between Pentax announcement and USA availability is always quite long. Like 12 to 18 months, maybe longer. More importantly, MORE LENSES PLEASE!!! I would like a 40mm f2.4 SR DFA ED(IF) a.s.a.p..........

[NotaxPen]

Not in digital. If your competition knows you're breathing in 5 years cycles, you're dead. Even in the MF world, which is always threatened by digital hi-end 135 format; if users know there is lack of MF development on all ends, they abandon it and switch to 135 format.
Unlike in film, problem with digital is that the 135 format and below are in constant flux and in rapid improvement technology change, and if the MF is stuck at some end, it rapidly loses the advantages. Pentax must upgrade its 645, this year, yes, even if it means bribing Sony to produce special and expensive chips (scale up current tech 135 format sensors to MF size) just for them.

I didn't say anything about digital.

You said 5 years was a long time even in the film years.

I simply pointed out that 5 years was NOT a long time COMPARED TO FILM ERA.

[RonHendriks1966]

Well as long as the sensor is available maybe the 645D first edition simply stays in production as long there is demand for it.

[normhead]

Not in digital. If your competition knows you're breathing in 5 years cycles, you're dead. Even in the MF world, which is always threatened by digital hi-end 135 format; if users know there is lack of MF development on all ends, they abandon it and switch to 135 format.
Unlike in film, problem with digital is that the 135 format and below are in constant flux and in rapid improvement technology change, and if the MF is stuck at some end, it rapidly loses the advantages. Pentax must upgrade its 645, this year, yes, even if it means bribing Sony to produce special and expensive chips (scale up current tech 135 format sensors to MF size) just for them.

Pentax recently released a 645D 25mm F4 Al lens, I'm not sure what competition you're talking about. Are you saying that in your opinion FF will somehow miraculously overtake MF? If you've followed the discusions on APS-c vs FF, you'd know, one format never completely takes over from another. In fact I'm looking the opposite way. I was looking for someone to come out with a format twice the size of the sensor on the 645D with a digital view back like an iPad.

The biggest technical limitation in photography right now is sensor size. As technology improves look for sensor sizes to get bigger and bigger. The 645 of today will at some point what a 645 was in film days. A cross over camera with enough size to roughly compete and out resolve 35mm cameras, but without the tilt shift options of the big boys.

[Uluru]

Pentax recently released a 645D 25mm F4 Al lens, I'm not sure what competition you're talking about. Are you saying that in your opinion FF will somehow miraculously overtake MF? If you've followed the discusions on APS-c vs FF, you'd know, one format never completely takes over from another. In fact I'm looking the opposite way. I was looking for someone to come out with a format twice the size of the sensor on the 645D with a digital view back like an iPad.

It is the sensor improvement tech I'm talking about. If players that were developing MF sensors are out of sensor game, like Kodak, what on Earth are you going to use in digital MF bodies for the future? 10 years old sensors? The development in sensor tech up to 135mm full frame is incredible, and MF counterparts don't match it easily. If the MF advantage is slipping away with each new year, who is going to use MF systems in general that have no future, or it is ridiculously expensive just to procure the sensor?

Those 6,000 MF bodies a year for the whole MF market is an old mantra, that worked when 135 FF were around 24MP. Now with 36MP 135 format FFs and 40MP MFs it may come very soon to 4,000 or less.

645D must jump significantly in pixel count, and sensor size too, and only plausible sensor I see at this moment is Dalsa's 60MP FTF9168C.

[normhead]

The thing you don't seem to know is that there are pros still using D700's @ 12 Mp, who have never felt the urge to upgrade or switch to APS-c for more MP. It's nice to have more MP, but format trumps MP for many pros.

[Pål Jensen]

The same sources that claimed that there would be a mid/entry level DSLR this summer also says there will be a new 645D this summer. The K-50 is here so maybe there's hope for a new 645D soon?