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08-30-2013, 05:09 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Yeah, I just checked. I just set auto ISO for my upper limit per scene I enter. Seems something that is hard to not like. Of course YMMV.
At the end of the day it doesn't inhibit my shooting as much as I make it out to. I may change iso once or twice during a shoot. The problem is when I do I gotta think about it. I'm sure it will become muscle menorry over time though.



P.s. I'm not gonna do it. I'm going to build my film 645 kit more. I will also expand my Nikon and mf3 kit a bit too.

Gonna go take a look at some of the lenses on my wish list today. Who knows what I'll come home with.


Edit: came home with DFA 50 2.8 and penny 25 1.4


Last edited by Wired; 08-30-2013 at 06:30 PM.
08-31-2013, 06:25 AM   #17
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That macro is on my want list too! Let us know how it compares.

I personally think that the 645d still has that much over the d800. Theres nothing wrong with the king of 'ff', but it still doesnt have the colour or look of medium format. If you do any professional shooting at all, that should be enough to justify the upgrade imo! Honestly, having a flashy 4/3 for the new tech stuff, the k5's for performance and portability and 645d for the big stuff would be a dream rig. Then again I've been on a pro shoot where a 5d2 was used and the phase one box was literally a paperweight, whatever works/inspires I guess!
09-02-2013, 11:36 AM   #18
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I was quite on top of the waiting list for the D800E in Switzerland, at a very good price. Then I got an offer for a second hand 645D at an acceptable price, and cancelled my D800E order. The 645D bring more structure if details have low contrast and light is soft.

The difference between you and me: I was owning more than 10 645 and 67 Lenses (plus the adapter for 67 to 645), from 35 to 600mm. My Nikon gear was not of the quality of the 85/1.4 G when checking resolution at the border of the picture, except the 50/1.8 G and the Sigma 70/2.8. So I would have had to spend some 1000 $ on Nikon prime lenses extra, on lenses like the new Sigma 35/1.4 Art, the Sigma 150/2.8 Marco, a 300/4, a good 24mm lens and so on.
In your case, you'd have to buy the Pentax lenses, if right now you only have a 75mm.
09-02-2013, 12:17 PM   #19
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It's probably a good decision to wait for now. The 645d will have a drop in price in the near future, and the expanded collection of P645 lenses you're putting together now will be immediately transferable when you pick up the body then.

But honestly, you really should get the 645d as it is miles ahead of the d800e as far as image quality goes. When I put the images side-by-side, the d800e ones look like they were taken with a lomo camera and scanned with an iphone. Ok, maybe not that bad, but definitely noticeable to even non-photographers. And I'm with you on the placement of the ISO button on the d800e; for me it was the deal-breaker.

From an operation standpoint, for many gigs nowadays art directors/clients won't even consider you unless you're using a medium format system. Now this isn't true for EVERY job. But for the ones where it is, bringing in a d800e will get you laughed out of the building fast. It doesn't matter what you can produce; if you don't have the toys, they assume you can't get the job done. I'm talking multiple IQ280s to shoot a bullet-time sequence, and an Alexa to shoot behind the scenes B-roll. That's of course an extreme case, but the fact is you have to invest in your gear if you really want to get in the game.

I would suggest that you pick up the 645d as quickly as you can. It's not as a good as an P1 or Leaf, but at least it gets your foot in the door for making acceptable images. The 645d combined with a betterlight for product shots will actually get you pretty close to a P1 for much less money. But really, if you're serious about photography, you should be investing in a top-of-the-line P1 back. I don't know if you've already been doing your own retouching, but it's actually cheaper (and better) to hire a series of graphic design interns for next-to-nothing than to waste your own time doing that work (at least for my time that's how it works out anyway). The kids nowadays are really damn good, and they're all starving for the work.

Also, have you looked into getting an M9 and a 1dx? The M9 is especially good for street photography, and the 1dx autofocus and fps is stellar. Both are worlds better than the d800e in their specific applications. You mentioned that you have several systems now; I think that's a very good approach actually. In cycling most folks go for the "quiver" concept: a different bike each optimized for a different riding style. I mean, you wouldn't do a cross race on a downhill sled or ride observed trials on a track bike, right? The same should go for cameras.

Maybe try and think of a specific use that each system is good for, and pick up any additional systems you need. I would suggest: P1 (or 645d) for "serious" shots. K5 for convenience and nostalgia. M9 for candids, plus one of the Fujis for candids in sketchy locations. 1dx for action and low light. m43 set on intervalometer and mounted to the bike or for general crash cam duty. 8x10 film for street cred. Only one lens per body, so you don't waste any time changing lenses. This saves money too. But you should definitely eventually sell the d800e; life's too short to put up with inconveniences like that ISO button. Also, don't listen to anyone that tries to buy it from you for a lower-than-MSRP price. The fact is a used and vetted d800e without left-autofocus-point issues is actually worth MORE than a new d800e, so you should price accordingly and stick to it.

09-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #20
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I don't got the work load yet to hire interns. I get maybe a solid 2 gigs a month right now. But I do really want a 645.

I'm glad I finally read about someone else having issues with button placement. I asked about it on a few nikon forums and got run out of town.

I did think about some Leica's but can't justify the money like I could with a 645. Even though they are arguably similarly priced.

I'm gonna grab a few more A series lenses first and go from there.

09-03-2013, 10:28 AM   #21
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once in awhile someone hands me their Nikon to help them with their night settings or to shoot a portrait of them in front of a landmark...I have noticed some peculiar placement of the ISO button that really made me question the ergonomics of some of the models.
Since you already have a hefty investment in the D800, I recommend you stick with that, but am certain once you try a 645D you will no longer be happy with the D800 images you are getting...so DON'T do that.
09-05-2013, 08:52 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I wouldn't got with the updated 645D because it will be over $10,000 and in can't justify that unless I go full pro and can write it off on my taxes.
You don't necessarily need to be a full-time pro or have photography as your sole source of income in order to claim purchases of gear. It's possible to claim gear costs with a part-time business as well, but even then you're only able to write it off over a number of years so it's still a significant expense.

I would also love a 645D but at the moment we would likely get more mileage out of a K-5II or IIs.
09-05-2013, 09:19 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by polachekphotography Quote
You don't necessarily need to be a full-time pro or have photography as your sole source of income in order to claim purchases of gear. It's possible to claim gear costs with a part-time business as well, but even then you're only able to write it off over a number of years so it's still a significant expense.

I would also love a 645D but at the moment we would likely get more mileage out of a K-5II or IIs.
Thats the other quandary. I've parked my OMD and D800 for this month, going to try and not use them at all. The idea is to rekindle my love for Pentax gear. And so far, after four days I've shot so much with my K5 and forgot how much I loved it. Really, it's such a fantastic camera with fantastic ergonomics, there is almost nothing wrong with it. So, with two K5's in my collection, the thought of selling my older one on the Kijiji and putting it towards a iis model. But how long until a true upgrade comes out?

So what, the IIs is slightly sharper, its got better AF. But I want more resolution, I want a bigger/faster buffer/processor. Thats all I want. Give me 24mp APSC and 9-12fps and a 30 frame buffer and I would be throwing my money at the cash register until they said stop.

09-05-2013, 09:43 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
...
I want a bigger/faster buffer/processor. Thats all I want. Give me 24mp APSC and 9-12fps and a 30 frame buffer and I would be throwing my money at the cash register until they said stop.
Sounds like a sports camera. You better add best of breed auto focus speed and 3D-tracking to that wish list too.
09-05-2013, 09:59 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
But I want more resolution, I want a bigger/faster buffer/processor. Thats all I want. Give me 24mp APSC and 9-12fps and a 30 frame buffer and I would be throwing my money at the cash register until they said stop.
You would only get more dots going to 24mp on apsc, not more resolution. The limiting point to a 24mp apsc is going to be the lenses. You can up res and get similar from a 16mp. Zeiss is working on lenses to match that level of resolution but they are going to big, expensive, manual focus, and probably only available in Canon and Nikon mounts. Leica also has a few lenses that could probably meet that; the Leica monochrome has established that several lenses keep going up in resolution as sensors allow it. The mp rush is a marketing thing from this point. To go up in resolution in reality you have to invest seriously in lens design or go to larger sensors utilizing larger image circles. For you this means staying with the D800 or moving to medium format.

Same goes for the D800 though, a next version with more pixels isn't going to gain resolution. Most lenses are already over stressed at the corners now. And on top of that diffraction becomes more apparent with a higher pixel density. Diffraction becomes very evident resolution loss stopping down and lenses already aren't sharp wide open very limiting DOF obtainable at a maximum resolution.

Of course the same goes for medium format as well which has narrower DOF as well for a given aperture. Increasing pixel density on the 645D will gain little resolution for a landscape photographer. Going FF645 would maybe improve things but I don't know how the corners of Pentax 645 lenses will perform at FF, would probably be stressed at much over 60mp, then you have to account for the reduced DOF and effects of diffraction stopping down. Main advantage of a FF 645 would be the angle of view achievable and possible increase in actual resolution.

It comes to a point when things all start to balance out without quadrupling your budget for lens design. Investments in sensor design are only going to gain lower noise and greater dynamic range. Increasing pixel count though has been proven to improve noise by down resing images. This is proven by the D800 compared to the D4...
09-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
You would only get more dots going to 24mp on apsc, not more resolution. The limiting point to a 24mp apsc is going to be the lenses. You can up res and get similar from a 16mp. Zeiss is working on lenses to match that level of resolution but they are going to big, expensive, manual focus, and probably only available in Canon and Nikon mounts. Leica also has a few lenses that could probably meet that; the Leica monochrome has established that several lenses keep going up in resolution as sensors allow it. The mp rush is a marketing thing from this point. To go up in resolution in reality you have to invest seriously in lens design or go to larger sensors utilizing larger image circles. For you this means staying with the D800 or moving to medium format.

Same goes for the D800 though, a next version with more pixels isn't going to gain resolution. Most lenses are already over stressed at the corners now. And on top of that diffraction becomes more apparent with a higher pixel density. Diffraction becomes very evident resolution loss stopping down and lenses already aren't sharp wide open very limiting DOF obtainable at a maximum resolution.

Of course the same goes for medium format as well which has narrower DOF as well for a given aperture. Increasing pixel density on the 645D will gain little resolution for a landscape photographer. Going FF645 would maybe improve things but I don't know how the corners of Pentax 645 lenses will perform at FF, would probably be stressed at much over 60mp, then you have to account for the reduced DOF and effects of diffraction stopping down. Main advantage of a FF 645 would be the angle of view achievable and possible increase in actual resolution.

It comes to a point when things all start to balance out without quadrupling your budget for lens design. Investments in sensor design are only going to gain lower noise and greater dynamic range. Increasing pixel count though has been proven to improve noise by down resing images. This is proven by the D800 compared to the D4...
Then it's settled. Give me a D4 with K mount and SR

09-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Thats the other quandary. I've parked my OMD and D800 for this month, going to try and not use them at all. The idea is to rekindle my love for Pentax gear. And so far, after four days I've shot so much with my K5 and forgot how much I loved it. Really, it's such a fantastic camera with fantastic ergonomics, there is almost nothing wrong with it. So, with two K5's in my collection, the thought of selling my older one on the Kijiji and putting it towards a iis model. But how long until a true upgrade comes out?

So what, the IIs is slightly sharper, its got better AF. But I want more resolution, I want a bigger/faster buffer/processor. Thats all I want. Give me 24mp APSC and 9-12fps and a 30 frame buffer and I would be throwing my money at the cash register until they said stop.
If I had two K-5 bodies I would probably stick with that as well. I also have a hard time finding fault with the K-5. A little faster and more accurate autofocus would be helpful for our type of shooting but I'm pleased with the resolution and sharpness that we get from DA* glass. In terms of framerate/buffer size I have no complaints as I rarely have a need for rapid-fire.

The rebates on the II and IIs and the potential for an APS-C upgrade are appealing but only because it would allow us to upgrade our second camera through a trickle-down effect (we currently use a K-5 as a primary camera with two K-7 bodies rounding out the fleet), not that the K-5 is in desperate need of replacement.
09-05-2013, 10:37 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by polachekphotography Quote
If I had two K-5 bodies I would probably stick with that as well. I also have a hard time finding fault with the K-5. A little faster and more accurate autofocus would be helpful for our type of shooting but I'm pleased with the resolution and sharpness that we get from DA* glass. In terms of framerate/buffer size I have no complaints as I rarely have a need for rapid-fire.

The rebates on the II and IIs and the potential for an APS-C upgrade are appealing but only because it would allow us to upgrade our second camera through a trickle-down effect (we currently use a K-5 as a primary camera with two K-7 bodies rounding out the fleet), not that the K-5 is in desperate need of replacement.
I do a lot of burst. I got hired by a local blog to do pro cycling photos, I do live bands... so burst speed is very important. but so is SR. Right now my K5 is my best tool for the job, but I can't help but want more!



09-05-2013, 01:20 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Then it's settled. Give me a D4 with K mount and SR
Not sure what you mean but OK, go for it, hope you have about +500,000USD to invest in the undertaking.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I do a lot of burst. I got hired by a local blog to do pro cycling photos, I do live bands... so burst speed is very important. but so is SR. Right now my K5 is my best tool for the job, but I can't help but want more!
With this kind of requirements I am not sure why you would even consider a 645D. No medium format ever made from film to the latest Phase and Hassy units meet this. It sounds like you haven't gotten into a defined market yet and thus haven't chosen the best tool/s you like for your main body of work. Ya know if you ever need that bit of extra for an odd job there is a rental market. Back a number of years ago I rented a Canon 600mm 4.0 on two occasions when I had a need for it. I couldn't justify ownership then as it was a two weeks once a year for two years...

Last edited by atlnq9; 09-05-2013 at 01:26 PM.
09-05-2013, 01:50 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Get the 645D and keep all your other gear!
+1, aye go for it, it's only money and the good news it's not even my money.
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