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11-08-2013, 05:31 AM - 2 Likes   #46
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here a sample from two days ago. the beautiful marble valley in carrara at sunset..

pentax 645d with 35 a at f16



crop center



crop edge




i apply normal sharpening in lightroom very minimal, the 645d file can be treated with a lot of sharpening and clarity without creating disturbing artifacts

here two article i found of d800e used in landscape shots.

My Nikon D800 vs D800E Comparison | Matt Kloskowski

Nikon D800E - Amazing Resolution ...but "Houston, We Have A Problem!" :: General Blog

in both cases lenses that cost more than 1000 euro...one case a prime considered sharp stopped down.
probably only the 14-28 can create acceptable edge corners, and the new 15 zeiss that cost 3 grand. i cannot find sample in the web. i remember the sample
produced by nikon for the launch of d800 and there were shots by professional photog with 14-28. i remember i wasn't impressed by the corner performance.

in the second link the authto write

Conclusion: The D800/D800E is a mighty achievement for Nikon, as it boasts an incredible, mega detail resolving sensor that is capable of providing results normally the domain of much more expensive Large Format digital…. but perhaps the release of this camera was a little premature from Nikon? For without the lens system to back it up, this camera may well become an expensive paperweight for those who like to shoot wide angle and then print big.

My recommendation is to try this camera with your own lenses before you buy (ask very nicely at your local camera store) and be prepared for the extra cost of some new lenses if your current ones are no longer up to the task.


and the same has been told to me by a swiss pentaxian in preview forum. he use both camera. and d800 don't produce the iq of 645d.

anyway both great camera, but for ultimate IQ i think 645d has the edge.

11-08-2013, 05:37 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
At some point you have to compromise. Do you use your 645D to snap pictures of, say, the kids running around. Do you take with you when you go sight seeing. Or take it with you to a dinner party and want to shoot handhold in low light.

What I mean is there are cameras better suited for causal use all the way up to cameras better suited for more serious work.


at a party or to snap some photos i won't even consider the a7...is not so portable the lenses are bulky and the af will be pretty mediocre.
i will probably prefer a omd or a fuji x100 that i have. i rarely snap photos...you need 36 million pixel to snap photos of kids running around? considering few lenses will resolve the sensor with a tripod , handhold you will end up with the detail of a 16 20 million camera probably.
the camera is good but i don't like sony as a brand. but for use some pentax ff lenses is a good idea. i won't trust it for landscape, cause i doubt there are sony lenses that can resolve at the edge.
11-08-2013, 06:44 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
at a party or to snap some photos i won't even consider the a7...is not so portable the lenses are bulky and the af will be pretty mediocre.
Yes, that's what smartphones are for.
11-08-2013, 07:29 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
at a party or to snap some photos i won't even consider the a7...is not so portable the lenses are bulky and the af will be pretty mediocre.
i will probably prefer a omd or a fuji x100 that i have. i rarely snap photos...you need 36 million pixel to snap photos of kids running around? considering few lenses will resolve the sensor with a tripod , handhold you will end up with the detail of a 16 20 million camera probably.
the camera is good but i don't like sony as a brand. but for use some pentax ff lenses is a good idea. i won't trust it for landscape, cause i doubt there are sony lenses that can resolve at the edge.
Your photo above... a really nice shot in itself but the way the 645D renders those individual blades of grass and rocks in the distance at the same time is just incredible. If I'm more of a landscape shooter your sample above would've sold me on it over the D800E

As for A7, If the JPEG engine is good you can set low res, shoot RAW+JPEG, delete raw in post (or dont take raw at all). Get the quality, high iso, and bg blur, but not the filesize. I do this method with D600 for my kids and family pics, get best of both worlds I'm sure sony will bring compact lenses for it soon-ish.

I didn't like Sony as a camera brand, but they've been innovating like crazy. For me it's hard not to respect them, they're the ones that first came up with MILC APSC, sub $2000 FF, compact AF FF, and today, MILC FF. Also Pentax's two latest sensors before the K-3 was Sony's (K-x and K-5)


Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-08-2013 at 07:42 AM.
11-08-2013, 07:38 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
For me it's hard not to respect them, they're the ones that first came up with MILC APSC, sub $2000 FF, compact AF FF, and today, MILC FF.
Sony is very determined to be on top soon. And they're working like crazy to get there. That's very respectable in my book.

They've developed a very compact and rugged FF camera, that's even smaller then worlds most compact APS-C DSLR system. Those are the qualities for which we like Pentax.
11-08-2013, 07:42 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
If the JPEG engine is good you can set low res, shoot RAW+JPEG, delete raw in post (or dont take raw at all). Get the quality, high iso, and bg blur, but not the filesize

I didn;t like Sony as a camera brand either but they've been innovating like crazy. Even though some concepts are more successful than others (I'm looking at you SLT, but that's progress for you). For me it's hard not to respect them, they're the ones that first came up with MILC APSC, sub $2000 FF, compact AF FF, and today, MILC FF.
well if i go party or i go out night taking photos i would prefer a ricoh gr than a ff with a superb lens in front.
different if i have to shoot an event. but for fun i rarely prefer little camera.
for the rest for me innovation is penta k3 with a totally sealed system, great lenses and 645d with an off that's cinema style.
i dont lie any of the sony products, and their EVF vision. it's not a case that they are losing billions every year. loo bcn japan ranking. they are disappeared for the first 20 position, in JAPAN! their home.
11-08-2013, 07:45 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Sony is very determined to be on top soon. And they're working like crazy to get there. That's very respectable in my book.

They've developed a very compact and rugged FF camera, that's even smaller then worlds most compact APS-C DSLR system. Those are the qualities for which we like Pentax.
be top?
reflex they are even behind pentax probably. they are saving their back with nex cheap series.
they planned to be on top ager 5 years. they are nowhere near can ikon, and every major product sold at more than a 1000 dollar has been a failure...a900 a850 rx1
i doubt they sell lot of this. the a77 has sold nothing compared to pentax k5 1 and 2 for example. the k3 that cost 1400 dollar is sold out in many places.
they are losing billions and it will come a point they should stop and think they are losing money with 4 5 new camera evey 6 months.
11-08-2013, 07:46 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
well if i go party or i go out night taking photos i would prefer a ricoh gr than a ff with a superb lens in front.
different if i have to shoot an event. but for fun i rarely prefer little camera.
for the rest for me innovation is penta k3 with a totally sealed system, great lenses and 645d with an off that's cinema style.
i dont lie any of the sony products, and their EVF vision. it's not a case that they are losing billions every year. loo bcn japan ranking. they are disappeared for the first 20 position, in JAPAN! their home.
Yes, I think we just use different tools for different purposes In my case, I really like wide aperture photography with lots of OOF areas, esp with FF, but sometimes even the D600 is just too big. I long for digital ME super, and sony just delivered it to the world (I thought it'd be Pentax).

EVF is catching up, although rather slowly. I've heard people saying that the latest Olympus EVFs are already at K10D level. For me the value of EVF would be to see and compose OOF areas, which even the best MF film camera OVFs can't do. Live view works, but it's a pain.

I hope OVF and EVF both survives, more choices is always better for us

As per sony as a company, they have money to bleed. Let them use it to innovate and push camera technology farther, and pressure everyone to make even better cameras. Again it's a good thing for us. I'm happy that they keep pushing their camera lines.

11-08-2013, 07:51 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Your photo above... a really nice shot in itself but the way the 645D renders those individual blades of grass and rocks in the distance at the same time is just incredible. If I'm more of a landscape shooter your sample above would've sold me on it over the D800E

As for A7, If the JPEG engine is good you can set low res, shoot RAW+JPEG, delete raw in post (or dont take raw at all). Get the quality, high iso, and bg blur, but not the filesize. I do this method with D600 for my kids and family pics, get best of both worlds I'm sure sony will bring compact lenses for it soon-ish.

I didn't like Sony as a camera brand, but they've been innovating like crazy. For me it's hard not to respect them, they're the ones that first came up with MILC APSC, sub $2000 FF, compact AF FF, and today, MILC FF. Also Pentax's two latest sensors before the K-3 was Sony's (K-x and K-5)
consider that i use retina macbook pro and lightroom and probably these are more than 100% crop and i applied standard sharpness. this is a shot at f16 and you see no lose in sharpness...probably if you use f11 in ff for maxim dog you begin seeing lose in resolution due to diffraction.
the a35 lenses i paid 300 dollar, and is simply amazing for me. no sign of ca or astigmatism. in addiction clarity and micro contrast are unbelievable.
i hope the next 645d2 will have a 60 or 80 million sensor. I'm pretty sure this lens will not have problem.
i d like to try the new 25 but i agree 3500 euro are a a lot of money.
11-08-2013, 08:05 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
consider that i use retina macbook pro and lightroom and probably these are more than 100% crop and i applied standard sharpness. this is a shot at f16 and you see no lose in sharpness...probably if you use f11 in ff for maxim dog you begin seeing lose in resolution due to diffraction.
the a35 lenses i paid 300 dollar, and is simply amazing for me. no sign of ca or astigmatism. in addiction clarity and micro contrast are unbelievable.
i hope the next 645d2 will have a 60 or 80 million sensor. I'm pretty sure this lens will not have problem.
i d like to try the new 25 but i agree 3500 euro are a a lot of money.
So it's $300 for a great 28mm FF prime, that has very high diffraction limit. That's indeed super cheap

I guess it's similar to the FF- APSC debate. When you start needing to constantly push the limits of the system (like using 50mm at f/2 on APSC and the 14-24 at f/16 on FF), even cheap lenses from the format one size above is much more attractive.

Maybe with 645Dii the crop factor is smaller and you wont even need to buy the 25
11-08-2013, 08:13 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
here a sample from two days ago. the beautiful marble valley in carrara at sunset..

pentax 645d with 35 a at f16



crop center



crop edge




i apply normal sharpening in lightroom very minimal, the 645d file can be treated with a lot of sharpening and clarity without creating disturbing artifacts

here two article i found of d800e used in landscape shots.

My Nikon D800 vs D800E Comparison | Matt Kloskowski

Nikon D800E - Amazing Resolution ...but "Houston, We Have A Problem!" :: General Blog

in both cases lenses that cost more than 1000 euro...one case a prime considered sharp stopped down.
probably only the 14-28 can create acceptable edge corners, and the new 15 zeiss that cost 3 grand. i cannot find sample in the web. i remember the sample
produced by nikon for the launch of d800 and there were shots by professional photog with 14-28. i remember i wasn't impressed by the corner performance.

in the second link the authto write

Conclusion: The D800/D800E is a mighty achievement for Nikon, as it boasts an incredible, mega detail resolving sensor that is capable of providing results normally the domain of much more expensive Large Format digital…. but perhaps the release of this camera was a little premature from Nikon? For without the lens system to back it up, this camera may well become an expensive paperweight for those who like to shoot wide angle and then print big.

My recommendation is to try this camera with your own lenses before you buy (ask very nicely at your local camera store) and be prepared for the extra cost of some new lenses if your current ones are no longer up to the task.


and the same has been told to me by a swiss pentaxian in preview forum. he use both camera. and d800 don't produce the iq of 645d.

anyway both great camera, but for ultimate IQ i think 645d has the edge.

I still get giddy reviewing my 645D images and finding that level of detail in there. The large prints are just so pleasing; one does not know what one is missing until you start shooting with the bigger sensor, IMO.
I have put hands on the D800E several times now and do not find IQ to be comparable with the 645D. Especially without shelling out some bucks for the best lenses to coax the performance. but to each their own, i'd say.

wait, we were talking about the Sony, how did I get on Nikon...sheesh!
11-08-2013, 08:25 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
I still get giddy reviewing my 645D images and finding that level of detail in there. The large prints are just so pleasing; one does not know what one is missing until you start shooting with the bigger sensor, IMO.
I have put hands on the D800E several times now and do not find IQ to be comparable with the 645D. Especially without shelling out some bucks for the best lenses to coax the performance. but to each their own, i'd say.

wait, we were talking about the Sony, how did I get on Nikon...sheesh!
They're both FF, you know the PF rule, all threads will turn into FF

I think it's funny because I dont think sony designed this camera to do what 645D is doing, but perhaps with the Zeiss lenses coming up they'll be capable of delivering very respectable performance similar to D800.
11-08-2013, 08:25 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
here a sample from two days ago. the beautiful marble valley in carrara at sunset..

pentax 645d with 35 a at f16



crop center



crop edge




i apply normal sharpening in lightroom very minimal, the 645d file can be treated with a lot of sharpening and clarity without creating disturbing artifacts

here two article i found of d800e used in landscape shots.

My Nikon D800 vs D800E Comparison | Matt Kloskowski

Nikon D800E - Amazing Resolution ...but "Houston, We Have A Problem!" :: General Blog

in both cases lenses that cost more than 1000 euro...one case a prime considered sharp stopped down.
probably only the 14-28 can create acceptable edge corners, and the new 15 zeiss that cost 3 grand. i cannot find sample in the web. i remember the sample
produced by nikon for the launch of d800 and there were shots by professional photog with 14-28. i remember i wasn't impressed by the corner performance.

in the second link the authto write

Conclusion: The D800/D800E is a mighty achievement for Nikon, as it boasts an incredible, mega detail resolving sensor that is capable of providing results normally the domain of much more expensive Large Format digital…. but perhaps the release of this camera was a little premature from Nikon? For without the lens system to back it up, this camera may well become an expensive paperweight for those who like to shoot wide angle and then print big.

My recommendation is to try this camera with your own lenses before you buy (ask very nicely at your local camera store) and be prepared for the extra cost of some new lenses if your current ones are no longer up to the task.


and the same has been told to me by a swiss pentaxian in preview forum. he use both camera. and d800 don't produce the iq of 645d.

anyway both great camera, but for ultimate IQ i think 645d has the edge.
Beautiful photos. It is shots like this (not test chart shots) that are the telling thing. The 645D does an amazing job of rendering landscapes. Hark Lee has used it as well. D800 is clearly a good camera, but it just can't measure up in these particular areas.
11-08-2013, 09:01 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Beautiful photos. It is shots like this (not test chart shots) that are the telling thing. The 645D does an amazing job of rendering landscapes. Hark Lee has used it as well. D800 is clearly a good camera, but it just can't measure up in these particular areas.


i completely agree with you. When i read the dxi ranking for color depth and found the d800 with more bit of my 645d i smile. the d800 color are most of the time a pain , and need tons of time in pp to be perfect.

what surprises me of 645d:

- spot on metering..rarely fooled.
- amazing iq out of the camera. i pp to obtain a mood or to increase the dr , but rarely touch color and contrast. contrast is always the right amount, not too much not too low, clearly some lenses are bette
- building handling and ovf. simply like driving a rolls royce.

but

- more lenses aunder 2000 dollar.
-tit and shift
- LS lenses.
- a new sensor with better dr, the d800 and my k5 in this regard are amazing....but even the 645d is not bad at all especially with high lit. in addction much less noise in the sky.
11-08-2013, 10:03 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by jonny1986 Quote
...
i rarely snap photos...you need 36 million pixel to snap photos of kids running around?
I agree that is a lot of MP for that. I was thinking more along the lines of the size of the camera. There may be smaller but I'd venture to say it's a pretty compact FF camera from where I'm sitting.

On a side note. I thought by now I could be picking up a used 645D at a good price due to the development of newer versions of that camera. But I find no words on future development. And then I started wondering what if the new version doesn't have a CCD sensor. I really like the color too and apparently a big reason owners have one. What do you think the future may hold?

Edit: I've been wanting a digital back for my 500C/M for a long time. But the price for what I want is too outrageous. You can get a more complete digital solution from the 645D for about the same price. And again I thought by now the 645D would have driven prices of digital backs down more. I guess I just need to pay to play in this area.

Last edited by tuco; 11-08-2013 at 10:34 AM. Reason: Add info
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