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07-19-2014, 07:25 AM - 1 Like   #91
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Royce, I couldn't agree more with what you said. My experiences with 645D, 645Z, and D800E have been more or less the same. The D800, D800E, and most likely D810 (judging from the specs) offer shooting options that are, quite frankly, downright weird. The bracketing spacing (exposure difference between shots) can be set only up to 1 EV, and you have to take 5 shots to cover 4EV, which gets quite annoying in fast-changing light conditions. Especially with 14.5 stops of DR the Sony sensor offers, I really don't see the point of having only 1 stop difference between shots. Customization of the bracketing order is also limited, at least compared to the D or Z, and this can easily lead to frustration in the field. The dedicated buttons on 645D have served me well over the years and they can make a huge difference in getting the shot.

QuoteOriginally posted by Royce Howland Quote
I don't have any of the Nikon D8xx series and likely won't ever. But I did just recently pick up a Sony a7R to replace all my Canon 35mm kit that I'm now selling off (except for some choice lenses like the TS-E's to keep & use with the a7R). I expect to do some comparison work over the coming months, with the a7R vs. my older 645D's and my new 645Z. I'm sure each will prove to have its singular advantages.

From a shootability standpoint, I already know there are things about the a7R that annoy me in ways that the slow & heavy 645D never has done. The 645Z eliminates most of the downsides of the D's shooting experience (aside from sheer size & weight). I just plain enjoy shooting the Pentax in ways that I can't see ever being true with the Sony; I say that having no history with either company's cameras prior to the 645D and a7R. But we'll see, once I've had more time to become accustomed to the Sony's quirks.

As fantastic image-making tools, I do think these cameras all represent an embarrassment of riches. It was 10 years ago that I bought a Canon 10D. Even having worked in IT for 30 years and knowing the pace of technology innovation, it's still amazing to think that we've come from the 10D to the 645Z or even the a7R in just one decade. While we haven't doubled hardware / technical qualities like resolution or dynamic range every 18 months as Moore's Law would seem to call for, it's still incredible what we can do with the current crop of cameras compared to that old 10D... which itself was no slouch for its time.


07-19-2014, 09:31 AM - 1 Like   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by harklee Quote
Royce, I couldn't agree more with what you said. My experiences with 645D, 645Z, and D800E have been more or less the same. The D800, D800E, and most likely D810 (judging from the specs) offer shooting options that are, quite frankly, downright weird. The bracketing spacing (exposure difference between shots) can be set only up to 1 EV, and you have to take 5 shots to cover 4EV, which gets quite annoying in fast-changing light conditions. Especially with 14.5 stops of DR the Sony sensor offers, I really don't see the point of having only 1 stop difference between shots. Customization of the bracketing order is also limited, at least compared to the D or Z, and this can easily lead to frustration in the field. The dedicated buttons on 645D have served me well over the years and they can make a huge difference in getting the shot.
agreed, 1EV spacing makes no sense with the amount of shadow/highlight recovery baked into these sensors/processors.
regarding the dedicated buttons, I love having the mirror up knob right on top where i can easily grab it instead of digging through a menu. super handy for crashing waves.

Last edited by mikeSF; 07-21-2014 at 05:20 PM.
07-19-2014, 11:08 AM   #93
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QuoteQuote:
One last comment before the onslaught-the FE 55mm 1.8 is the sharpest lens I have ever seen in my days holding a camera. No, I do not have the Zeiss OTUS nor have I shot with one...is it sharper? Probably. I don't know. For $4000 should it be? Yes. Back to the point-because of my pixel peeper addiction I will gladly use the A7r over the 645D any day. Couple the sharpness factor with the fact that it is over half the weight, well, you pretty much got a winner IMHO.
Zeiss OTUS 55mm 1.4 on D800 vs the Zeiss 55mm 1.8 FE on A7r @f5.6
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07-19-2014, 11:28 AM   #94
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Interesting. I'd think the D800E would be a more relevant comparison though, even though it's a moot point for me - either one is more than sharp enough.

07-20-2014, 04:21 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
At some point you have to compromise. Do you use your 645D to snap pictures of, say, the kids running around. Do you take with you when you go sight seeing. Or take it with you to a dinner party and want to shoot handhold in low light.

What I mean is there are cameras better suited for causal use all the way up to cameras better suited for more serious work.


when I want the "BEST" i'll take my 645D to any of the places you mentioned. I have other cameras I shoot according to my moods. I find ways to it done.
07-20-2014, 06:38 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
I'll jump in here and say that, even though I have only been testing it so far (and in an extremely limited way due to things going on in my life right now), the difference between the 645Z and the A7R is pretty great in terms of buttons and their placements. I put that down to the size difference---you just have to pay a penalty either way: With the Z you get a lot of rational buttons and placements(although that's compromised in vertical, imo)but you gain serious weight and size; with the A7R you get this lovely size and weight and then have to pay for it with fiddliness. I would add that the Z seems easier to use with 2 hands to me, the left hand truly adding a meaningful platform, while with the A7R i always feel like my left hand is a little like a vestigial appendage---it feels cramped helping out.

Well I certainly can't disagree with you there. For me, I think I am starting to finally find a camera I am comfortable with in my photo ventures-I do a lot of hiking and carrying around the 645D even with only two or three lenses is somewhat taxing. Being able to get great quality out of a small package, ie A7R, and not missing a shot because the camera is in your hand, not your bag, well I think there's a lot to be said for that. I remember shooting with a Fuji 617 and an Ebony SV45TE...great cameras. Amazing image quality (when properly scanned). But, I found myself shooting much less than I would with a digital camera...and because of that, I found myself having less fun. I can still do some deliberate work with the A7R, more so with the 645D, especially considering the aforementioned points, so I might keep it after all. Still on the fence at this point.
08-16-2014, 06:20 PM   #97
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Twist of fate

So, after some careful deliberation, and a slight twist of fate, I ended up selling a Leica M9-P, A7r, AND my good ole 645D to purchase the 645Z. There is something to be said for the simplicity of having one camera. Plus, everything they said about shutter vibration in the A7r is true. A camera that cannot take a sharp photo to save its life at 1/200th of a second has to look at itself in a mirror and say, "Am I truly happy being a camera?!?"
08-17-2014, 09:35 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by beowulfAgate Quote
So, after some careful deliberation, and a slight twist of fate, I ended up selling a Leica M9-P, A7r, AND my good ole 645D to purchase the 645Z. There is something to be said for the simplicity of having one camera.
Congrats, and you are right about simplicity, if it can be had .
QuoteQuote:
Plus, everything they said about shutter vibration in the A7r is true. A camera that cannot take a sharp photo to save its life at 1/200th of a second has to look at itself in a mirror and say, "Am I truly happy being a camera?!?"
"Everything they said..." really?, because a number have now said that the issue is overstated, and moreover shared by other notable cameras. I for one have not had such problems for the most part---and by most I mean like 90%, and certainly not at 1/200th!

08-17-2014, 09:37 AM   #99
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I've tried to duplicate the problem and I haven't been able to. What settings should I use? I had heard it was 1/100 to 1/200.
08-19-2014, 06:37 PM   #100
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I know this is off topic of the thread but honestly I am not sure what it is if I've got a bad model off the assembly line or what but I've seen shutter vibration in some, not all, but some, of my images that were shot even at 1/320 of a second. It is a very distinct look that I recognize immediately-the "sharpest" part of the image is where the focus was, but deteriorated. The first time I took the A7r out of the box was on a vacation in March. Had NO IDEA about the shutter shake issue whatsoever as I had bought the camera solely based on the stats and it arrived the day I left. Shot images I would have shot with any other camera from 1/80-1/160 of a second. Almost half, if not 75% of my images were lacking any sharpness whatsoever...over 350 images. I had NEVER seen this before so I did the research and bam there was the shutter vibration at the top of a Google search.

The images I have taken, all handheld, from 1/200th of a second and faster, will show in most shots that vibration effect. I cannot get the tack sharp effect people claim to see. If I use a tripod, I can achieve a nice sharp image, but I mean, if I can't get that standing still, holding the camera with both hands, not walking or moving, and using a shutter speed of at least 1/200th, auto ISO, f/stop between 5.6 and 8, well, I just don't think it is worth it. Again, this is just my personal experience.
08-20-2014, 03:38 PM   #101
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Yea that totally sucks about the A7r.
If I purchased one, it would be solely for landscape shooting and so I wouldn't worry about it. Otherwise, I'd skip this one as an all around camera.

You may find relief using a deblur tool on your images btw. Some plugins actually offer motion blur logarithms in their toolset.

QuoteOriginally posted by beowulfAgate Quote
I know this is off topic of the thread but honestly I am not sure what it is if I've got a bad model off the assembly line or what but I've seen shutter vibration in some, not all, but some, of my images that were shot even at 1/320 of a second. It is a very distinct look that I recognize immediately-the "sharpest" part of the image is where the focus was, but deteriorated. The first time I took the A7r out of the box was on a vacation in March. Had NO IDEA about the shutter shake issue whatsoever as I had bought the camera solely based on the stats and it arrived the day I left. Shot images I would have shot with any other camera from 1/80-1/160 of a second. Almost half, if not 75% of my images were lacking any sharpness whatsoever...over 350 images. I had NEVER seen this before so I did the research and bam there was the shutter vibration at the top of a Google search.

The images I have taken, all handheld, from 1/200th of a second and faster, will show in most shots that vibration effect. I cannot get the tack sharp effect people claim to see. If I use a tripod, I can achieve a nice sharp image, but I mean, if I can't get that standing still, holding the camera with both hands, not walking or moving, and using a shutter speed of at least 1/200th, auto ISO, f/stop between 5.6 and 8, well, I just don't think it is worth it. Again, this is just my personal experience.
08-20-2014, 07:41 PM   #102
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Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource!
IR posted some comparison shots today. Impressive showing from all. I do hope we see a smaller form factor MF or FF from Pentax sometime soon.
08-21-2014, 05:27 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by indy Quote
Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource!
IR posted some comparison shots today. Impressive showing from all. I do hope we see a smaller form factor MF or FF from Pentax sometime soon.
Yes! I saw that and indeed it was impressive.

---------- Post added 08-21-14 at 08:29 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Yea that totally sucks about the A7r.
If I purchased one, it would be solely for landscape shooting and so I wouldn't worry about it. Otherwise, I'd skip this one as an all around camera.
But....it was never intended as an all around camera!!!! (sound of hair tearing out...). Didn't anyone read the specs on the thing? Holy petunia....
08-21-2014, 06:37 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by indy Quote
Interesting review over at the Imaging Resource site that involves the 645D and A7R. Thank goodness for Ricoh; their tallent and access to $ will hopefully push Pentax into currency across their product line. I would love to see Ricoh support competitive products for all key formats.
Recently I had the pleasure of performing a small evaluation between both of these units and was completely awestruck by the sheer IQ of the A7r against its MF counterpart. Which proved to be so close at times that I often found myself confusing the samples.

That being said, here are a some of my favorite samples between these two amazing cameras:



















08-21-2014, 02:59 PM   #105
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Coincidentally I just did the same comparison and included the Z. I agree the A7r was surprising good , but I also think there is a focus issue with the 645D image. Notice the artificial leaves to the right of the Samuel Smith bottle: the texture is clearly visible in the D image but not the Z or the A7r, indicating the focus for the D is a bit further back than the others; additionally, the 75mm was used for the D, with somewhat less DOF than the 50 and 55mm used for the A7r and Z.
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