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11-20-2013, 12:25 PM   #1
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Hasselblad 500 EL/M vs 500 C/M

I know the 500 c/m is the camera more portable and I wonder if any Hasselblad owners can recommend the bigger and heavier 500 EL/M. I saw one youtube video showing the camera 500 EL and I have great interest in either the 500 c/m and 500 el/m.


And the next question that I have is on which 80mm lens to get or whether I can use my Pentax 645N lens on the Hasselblad. While I see a bunch of adapters for adapting Hasselblad lens on Pentax MF camera, I don't see the reverse adapter in adapting Pentax MF lens on Hasselblad. I know this is a silly question but I wonder if any Pentax and Hasselblad owners can share some of your knowledge on adapting lens on Hasselblad.

It is almost impossible and very difficult to sell any film gear in PF marketplace, any place other than eBay that you can suggest me will be great appreciated.

Thanks a bunch,
Hin


Last edited by hinman; 12-05-2013 at 08:01 PM.
11-20-2013, 12:55 PM   #2
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The Hassy lenses are leaf shutter. It seems like a difficult thing to adapt Pentax 645 lenses to the Hassy even if there is sufficient image circle to cover the 6x6 frame.

I have all CF T* lenses for my 500C/M except one 60mm CB and they all are bay 60 so I only need one set of filters and lens hoods. And the 67mm Pentax bayonet filters I have from my Pentax 6x7 fit bay 60 without an adapter and the Hassy bayonet lens hood still fit over it. You can also get bay 60 to 67mm screw mount adapter for Hassy lenses. I would recommend getting as many bay 60 lenses as you are willing to afford just for that simplification.
11-20-2013, 02:19 PM   #3
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Tuco, thank you for your valuable inputs. I need to look into if Pentax 6x7 will fit my budget better. I personally like all the Takumar lenses and I would imagine likewise in 6x7. No matter what, I need to trim down my gear first before I can splurge for another film camera.

Cheers,
Hin
11-20-2013, 04:04 PM   #4
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National Camera Exchange in Minnesota buys MF gear. Talk to Erik.

11-21-2013, 02:46 PM   #5
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Kiev 88 cm/mlu

Just as an option, you may wish to research purchasing a KIEV 88 CM/MLU body from the Ukrane. These bodies are russian copies of the Hassy 1600 I believe and use a Pentacon 6 lens mount. They have the look and feel of an old Hassy at a tiny fraction of the price. Another upside is lots of really great quality glass made by Ziess Jena is available for it for very reasonable money. Because this camera does not use in-lens shutters, the P6 lenses can be used on the P645 or K-mount cameras with an adapter. I have two of these bodies and they are great fun to use!

There are downsides: They are Russian cameras with very spotty quality control. They are so spotty that a cottage industry has popped up around buying factory-fresh Kiev 88s, rebuilding them to spec/QC standards and then reselling them. Buying from high volume Russian ebay dealers is pretty safe (I did) or a company called ARAX camera in the Ukraine. Another drawback is the vast majority of Pentacon 6 mount lenses is in eastern Europe, with only a small trickle of used glass coming through North America. But again ... you can build a Hassy-feeling system with some amazingly good Zeiss glass for a tiny fraction of what a true used Hassy will cost.

Google Kiev 88 for fan sites and other information.

Best
11-21-2013, 04:46 PM   #6
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I picked up a 500 C/M a couple years back. They can be reasonable to purchase, but the CLA cost more than the purchase! Lens CLA is high due to the shutter in each lens. It does give very nice results tho.
11-22-2013, 10:50 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by germar Quote
Just as an option
Really cool that you've pulled this off! The P6 Zeiss glass just as good as the Hassy Zeiss glass? I've been studying medium format for a bit now and have been trying to determine what my entry level path into it will be. Hassy/Zeiss IQ results always seem to wow me the most but I am not going to pay Hassy prices for the (at least to begin with) relatively minimal amount of MF shooting I will be doing. I won't go on tangent with all my considerations but will say that your Kiev88 alternative is interesting but first impression is it seems risky with the downside information you've given.
11-23-2013, 06:47 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by todd Quote
Really cool that you've pulled this off! The P6 Zeiss glass just as good as the Hassy Zeiss glass? I've been studying medium format for a bit now and have been trying to determine what my entry level path into it will be. Hassy/Zeiss IQ results always seem to wow me the most but I am not going to pay Hassy prices for the (at least to begin with) relatively minimal amount of MF shooting I will be doing. I won't go on tangent with all my considerations but will say that your Kiev88 alternative is interesting but first impression is it seems risky with the downside information you've given.
Hi, Todd: To my limited knowledge, the Carl Zeiss Jena glass is every bit as good as western Zeiss glass of the same vintage. I can't comment directly between the lenses, as I've never shot with Hasselblad, but I have four CZJ lenses, the 50mm Flektocon f4, the 80mm Biometar f2.8, the 120 Biometar f2.8, the 180 Sonnar 2.8 and I can shoot all day with these lenses. They do really have pixie dust and in my opinion have that 3D rendering and micro-contrast we currently associate with the FA limiteds. They are big and heavy lenses, full metal construction and they have the fit and finish of Takumars. The 180mm Sonnar comes from a pre-WWII design and the lens is about the same size as the camera body. But the bokeh and rendering is really, really wonderful. The 80mm is normal for the 6x6 format and it is just sweet in regard to size and performance. The 120mm is a portrait lens and the 50 is a standard wide. I can tell you I bought all four of these lenses for what a used 500 c body with a back and normal lens would have cost.

There is a lens called the Arsat 30mm fisheye that is legendary in regards to extreme fish eye. It is very closely compared to the 5000 dollar Hassy fish eye in terms of image quality, and only costs 250-300 on the used market. People comment that they bought a Kiev 88 CM simply to use this fisheye, it's so good.

In regard to quality control on the cameras, I wouldn't be afraid to buy new from known dealers who advertise new cameras that have been "CLAed". Again, you can buy from a place like ARAX camera (they are customer oriented and custom assemble your specific kit) or you can buy from several big volume ebay sellers in the Ukraine. Search for Kiev 88 on ebay and look for terms like "New, CLAed by Hartblei." Hartblei is another business that rebuilds these cameras and sells to middle men dealers. It's just easier to buy from an ebay dealer with Paypal and make sure the new camera has been inspected and CLAed. A new KIEV 88 body with a spot TTL viewfinder, waist level finder, 2-120 film backs, and a Arsat 80mm 2.8 lens will cost about 450 dollars from a dealer. The ARAX kits are much more expensive, but they basically custom build the cameras for you. But whatever you do, I'd discourage buying a used body off of ebay. Older used cameras haven't been rebuilt and could have significant problems.

Last note - if you're from North America, buying from the Ukraine is a bit scary. The seller will tell you 14-21 days, but that is very optimistic. Mine took a full month to arrive, and I would tell anyone to give their shipment 4 to 5 weeks to arrive before freaking out. But it arrived very well packed an in perfect shape.

11-23-2013, 03:41 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by germar Quote
KIEV 88
Thanks again for this! I have definitely added the Kiev88 to my list of possibilities. The bit of reading I've done so far suggested that Kiev88's are really loud, especially compared to Hassy, and that they jam a lot, and that there's a learning curve for unjamming them. (I've read that Hassy jams a lot too...) Has very loud and frequent jamming been your experience? I started out with a K100D (AKA the Thwackomatic) for many years so I'm not necessarily daunted by it being loud... Jamming might get big on my nerves though...

One more question - You mentioned the two 80mm's above.. How do you think they compare? I googled it and one result said the jury is still out comparing them and another said that there are some who have problems getting the Biometar to fit the Kiev... (Oh it looks like it has to be the right mount with a locking ring)...

Another edit - I found kievaholic.com looks like a lot of good info there...

Last edited by todd; 11-23-2013 at 04:25 PM.
11-23-2013, 05:02 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by todd Quote
Thanks again for this! I have definitely added the Kiev88 to my list of possibilities. The bit of reading I've done so far suggested that Kiev88's are really loud, especially compared to Hassy, and that they jam a lot, and that there's a learning curve for unjamming them. (I've read that Hassy jams a lot too...) Has very loud and frequent jamming been your experience? I started out with a K100D (AKA the Thwackomatic) for many years so I'm not necessarily daunted by it being loud... Jamming might get big on my nerves though...

One more question - You mentioned the two 80mm's above.. How do you think they compare? I googled it and one result said the jury is still out comparing them and another said that there are some who have problems getting the Biometar to fit the Kiev... (Oh it looks like it has to be the right mount with a locking ring)...

Another edit - I found kievaholic.com looks like a lot of good info there...
The Kiev 88 is a noisy camera, but no louder than a Pentax 645. I've never had either of my two jam. However, the real trick is that the camera is NOT fool-proof, you can damage it if you fail to do one important thing: You MUST wind to the next frame immediately after you take a shot. This is called cocking the mechanism, and if you DON'T cock the shutter you can damage the camera when changing shutter speeds. I understand this was the case on the original Hassy 1600 cameras as well. You will know the camera is not cocked because you have no image through the viewfinder until you do.

Jamming has never been a problem on my two bodies. Not saying it's a myth, but I have not had any problems.

The CZJ 80 mm lens is a better constructed lens than the Arsat 80 lens. They have very similar properties, but the Zeiss is very well constructed while the Arsat is all plastic. They both take good pictures, but if you can swing the Zeiss, it's the way to go.
11-26-2013, 03:40 AM   #11
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I would go 500cm or 501c. I own 501c and love it. It's my most used camera. It has just the right weight to performance ratio (still one day I would like to get Pentax 67).
With the EL/M there are more things to break, especially the ageing electronics. I would go the full manual route on older bodies.
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