Could next 645D be with out miror?

i83N · 12-27-2013, 12:03 AM

Mirorless 645D with tilting rear screen would be a blast. No miror, means less shake when you take a shot.
Is it technecalty possible? Can such big sensor send a direct video feed to a screen?
P.S. If this post is in wrong section move it pleas

K David · 12-27-2013, 12:32 AM

Who knows. I want the next 645 D to have a flange distance of like 25mm and then come with the adapter for 645 lenses. Then basically everything would be usable on it -- full image circle -- and cropable in post. Imagine it -- a pro-grade Q.

Zygonyx · 12-27-2013, 01:13 AM

Not that much of a blast : loosing acurate, powerfree anytime framing potential ; and pleasurefull shooting capability ; whilst not helping image stability (i never need mirror lock-up with current model even with a tripod and long exposure) and having no action towards existing lens/sensor flange distance.
So definitely no interest imo.
The smartest job is only two-fit for next 645DII :
- reduce the rear of the "big box" through electronic miniaturisation
- fit in non-cropped sensor to definitely cut any 35mm comparison

Adam · 12-27-2013, 01:40 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by i83N

Mirorless 645D with tilting rear screen would be a blast. No miror, means less shake when you take a shot.
Is it technecalty possible? Can such big sensor send a direct video feed to a screen?
P.S. If this post is in wrong section move it pleas

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, especially considering that there's a huge amount of wasted space in the 645D to begin with. And yes, your post was in the wrong section- moved to the 645 forum.

Adam
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gazonk · 12-27-2013, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

The smartest job is only two-fit for next 645DII :
- reduce the rear of the "big box" through electronic miniaturisation
- fit in non-cropped sensor to definitely cut any 35mm comparison

+1! There is a lot of air in that box, so I would be surprised if the next model isn't significantly thinner. A non-cropped sensor would be cool, but even a less-cropped sensor would help a lot (e.g. a 36x48 format would make the sensor twice the size of FF 35mm - compared to 1.68x today).

saper · 12-27-2013, 01:51 AM

This will not help to reduce camera size unless Ricoh decide to move with new bayonet but it doesn't look they would. Thus there are not so many benefits to move 645D to mirrorless world. Instead they can make long time mirror lock function to let camera act like any mirrorless.

thibs · 12-27-2013, 02:30 AM

I wouldn't be surprised they'd go mirrorless with the 645D indeed, this is much much more likely than with with K-mount.

RonHendriks1966 · 12-27-2013, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

+1! There is a lot of air in that box, so I would be surprised if the next model isn't significantly thinner. A non-cropped sensor would be cool, but even a less-cropped sensor would help a lot (e.g. a 36x48 format would make the sensor twice the size of FF 35mm - compared to 1.68x today).

But now the sensor of the 645D is 44x33 wich twice the size off the large aps-h sensor I would except

I think that the mirror wil be in the next generation. Or if it does disappear then Pentax probably need to install some heatingcontroll, so that would take also space in the box.

A shorter flange distance? Well then maybe the smae as the K-mount? Then you could also run your K-mount lenses with adapter in them.

Somehow I think it is going to be less spectacular. There is still no CMOS sensor for this size jet. So maybe we just get a 50 megapixel CCD sensor big brother for the 645D. With all the electronics from the K-3 in the box off the 645D.

topace · 12-27-2013, 03:27 AM - **1 Like**

It'd be a shame if they took away the OVF from the product in their line that has the best OVF. EVF will conquer (IS in fact conquering even as we speak), but Medium Format is where OVF can make a glorious last stand.

Another thing that would be a shame would be to introduce a flimsy tear-off screen to their most rugged product. The idea is to get rid of moving parts, not to make more parts move. Tether with a cellphone instead if you don't want to bend down to see the image.

i83N · 12-27-2013, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by topace

Another thing that would be a shame would be to introduce a flimsy tear-off screen to their most rugged product. The idea is to get rid of moving parts, not to make more parts move. Tether with a cellphone instead if you don't want to bend down to see the image.

It’s possible to do rugged cameras with tilt screen, just look at sony and olympus.

wpvv · 12-27-2013, 04:38 AM

I'd love to use my Rollei lenses on a mirrorless MF body, and while dreaming having a tilt/shift adapter as well to go with it ;-)
And have the choice to buy a 25 or 28mm lens for the type of image I can now only get through stitching.

May be next Christmas?

**LaurenOE** · 12-27-2013, 06:20 AM

I think much depends on what was in the Hoya pipeline concerning the 645D replacement.
Ricoh has been pretty consistent in using as much of the previous R&D as possible.
If there was something in the works, then I think it will be much like the K5 and K3.

If not, then brace yourselves for something weird/different from the Ricoh brain trust.

lister6520 · 12-27-2013, 09:37 AM

I don't think it would make any sense to remove the mirror in an MF camera. Might make sense to have a secondary mirrorless model to complement it but for sure not replace it.

Rather than removing the mirror if I had it my way I would make the pentaprism a removable module to turn it into a waist level viewfinder (optical). Not sure how much that is possible though because of the AF, exposure meter and possibly other things that might need the prism to work. Unfortunately there's no way I can afford a 645D, let alone influnece its successor's design

As far as mirror induced vibration that can never be a problem that necessitates doing away with the mirror entirely - you can always lock it up or use live view in particular situations where it might matter. Here though as already mentioned one would wish for there to be a more permanent lock up mechanism, preferably a direct mechanically linked lever as I believe the film 645 and even many 35mm film SLRs had.

Lacunapratum · 12-27-2013, 12:24 PM

There is a rumor out there suggesting that a more traditional 645D replacement was scheduled for this year but delayed in favor of a substantially different one. I could imagine that that would be a mirrorless model and if it came with global shutter and a larger sensor it would be quite the sensation. Hopefully with adapters for the current lenses. Imagine - some new wide angle lenses taking advantage of the shorter flange distance... Definitely on my wish list.

RonHendriks1966 · 12-27-2013, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Lacunapratum

There is a rumor out there suggesting that a more traditional 645D replacement was scheduled for this year but delayed in favor of a substantially different one. I could imagine that that would be a mirrorless model and if it came with global shutter and a larger sensor it would be quite the sensation. Hopefully with adapters for the current lenses. Imagine - some new wide angle lenses taking advantage of the shorter flange distance... Definitely on my wish list.

Can you explain that advantage?

12-27-2013, 12:03 AM	#1
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203	Could next 645D be with out miror? Mirorless 645D with tilting rear screen would be a blast. No miror, means less shake when you take a shot. Is it technecalty possible? Can such big sensor send a direct video feed to a screen? P.S. If this post is in wrong section move it pleas

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12-27-2013, 12:32 AM	#2
K David Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Colorado Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,437	Who knows. I want the next 645 D to have a flange distance of like 25mm and then come with the adapter for 645 lenses. Then basically everything would be usable on it -- full image circle -- and cropable in post. Imagine it -- a pro-grade Q.

12-27-2013, 01:13 AM	#3
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Not that much of a blast : loosing acurate, powerfree anytime framing potential ; and pleasurefull shooting capability ; whilst not helping image stability (i never need mirror lock-up with current model even with a tripod and long exposure) and having no action towards existing lens/sensor flange distance. So definitely no interest imo. The smartest job is only two-fit for next 645DII : - reduce the rear of the "big box" through electronic miniaturisation - fit in non-cropped sensor to definitely cut any 35mm comparison

12-27-2013, 01:40 AM - 1 Like	#4
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Originally posted by i83N Mirorless 645D with tilting rear screen would be a blast. No miror, means less shake when you take a shot. Is it technecalty possible? Can such big sensor send a direct video feed to a screen? P.S. If this post is in wrong section move it pleas I don't see why it wouldn't be possible, especially considering that there's a huge amount of wasted space in the 645D to begin with. And yes, your post was in the wrong section- moved to the 645 forum. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

12-27-2013, 01:51 AM	#5
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Zygonyx The smartest job is only two-fit for next 645DII : - reduce the rear of the "big box" through electronic miniaturisation - fit in non-cropped sensor to definitely cut any 35mm comparison +1! There is a lot of air in that box, so I would be surprised if the next model isn't significantly thinner. A non-cropped sensor would be cool, but even a less-cropped sensor would help a lot (e.g. a 36x48 format would make the sensor twice the size of FF 35mm - compared to 1.68x today).

12-27-2013, 01:51 AM	#6
saper New Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 12	This will not help to reduce camera size unless Ricoh decide to move with new bayonet but it doesn't look they would. Thus there are not so many benefits to move 645D to mirrorless world. Instead they can make long time mirror lock function to let camera act like any mirrorless.

12-27-2013, 02:30 AM	#7
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	I wouldn't be surprised they'd go mirrorless with the 645D indeed, this is much much more likely than with with K-mount.

12-27-2013, 03:21 AM	#8
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by gazonk +1! There is a lot of air in that box, so I would be surprised if the next model isn't significantly thinner. A non-cropped sensor would be cool, but even a less-cropped sensor would help a lot (e.g. a 36x48 format would make the sensor twice the size of FF 35mm - compared to 1.68x today). But now the sensor of the 645D is 44x33 wich twice the size off the large aps-h sensor I would except I think that the mirror wil be in the next generation. Or if it does disappear then Pentax probably need to install some heatingcontroll, so that would take also space in the box. A shorter flange distance? Well then maybe the smae as the K-mount? Then you could also run your K-mount lenses with adapter in them. Somehow I think it is going to be less spectacular. There is still no CMOS sensor for this size jet. So maybe we just get a 50 megapixel CCD sensor big brother for the 645D. With all the electronics from the K-3 in the box off the 645D.

12-27-2013, 03:27 AM - 1 Like	#9
topace Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Stockholm Posts: 198	It'd be a shame if they took away the OVF from the product in their line that has the best OVF. EVF will conquer (IS in fact conquering even as we speak), but Medium Format is where OVF can make a glorious last stand. Another thing that would be a shame would be to introduce a flimsy tear-off screen to their most rugged product. The idea is to get rid of moving parts, not to make more parts move. Tether with a cellphone instead if you don't want to bend down to see the image.

12-27-2013, 03:52 AM	#10
i83N Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,203 Original Poster	Originally posted by topace Another thing that would be a shame would be to introduce a flimsy tear-off screen to their most rugged product. The idea is to get rid of moving parts, not to make more parts move. Tether with a cellphone instead if you don't want to bend down to see the image. It’s possible to do rugged cameras with tilt screen, just look at sony and olympus.

12-27-2013, 04:38 AM	#11
wpvv Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 251	I'd love to use my Rollei lenses on a mirrorless MF body, and while dreaming having a tilt/shift adapter as well to go with it ;-) And have the choice to buy a 25 or 28mm lens for the type of image I can now only get through stitching. May be next Christmas?

12-27-2013, 06:20 AM	#12
LaurenOE Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Back in Florida, but worldwide gigs! Photos: Albums Posts: 3,690	I think much depends on what was in the Hoya pipeline concerning the 645D replacement. Ricoh has been pretty consistent in using as much of the previous R&D as possible. If there was something in the works, then I think it will be much like the K5 and K3. If not, then brace yourselves for something weird/different from the Ricoh brain trust.

12-27-2013, 09:37 AM	#13
lister6520 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 733	I don't think it would make any sense to remove the mirror in an MF camera. Might make sense to have a secondary mirrorless model to complement it but for sure not replace it. Rather than removing the mirror if I had it my way I would make the pentaprism a removable module to turn it into a waist level viewfinder (optical). Not sure how much that is possible though because of the AF, exposure meter and possibly other things that might need the prism to work. Unfortunately there's no way I can afford a 645D, let alone influnece its successor's design As far as mirror induced vibration that can never be a problem that necessitates doing away with the mirror entirely - you can always lock it up or use live view in particular situations where it might matter. Here though as already mentioned one would wish for there to be a more permanent lock up mechanism, preferably a direct mechanically linked lever as I believe the film 645 and even many 35mm film SLRs had.

12-27-2013, 12:24 PM	#14
Lacunapratum Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 164	There is a rumor out there suggesting that a more traditional 645D replacement was scheduled for this year but delayed in favor of a substantially different one. I could imagine that that would be a mirrorless model and if it came with global shutter and a larger sensor it would be quite the sensation. Hopefully with adapters for the current lenses. Imagine - some new wide angle lenses taking advantage of the shorter flange distance... Definitely on my wish list.

12-27-2013, 12:38 PM	#15
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Lacunapratum There is a rumor out there suggesting that a more traditional 645D replacement was scheduled for this year but delayed in favor of a substantially different one. I could imagine that that would be a mirrorless model and if it came with global shutter and a larger sensor it would be quite the sensation. Hopefully with adapters for the current lenses. Imagine - some new wide angle lenses taking advantage of the shorter flange distance... Definitely on my wish list. Can you explain that advantage?