50 MP CMOS 645DII coming?

tuco · 01-24-2014, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

Wow, some deep pockets here !

I think its the idea of a MFD that is made to adapt 35mm lenses with full auto functionality so you can shoot it as either a 35mm camera with reduced MP count or native mode. Kind of like shooting DX lenses on a FX Nikon camera where it automatically adjusts.

jonny1986 · 01-24-2014, 04:23 PM

ccd at base iso produce simply better images, something that dxi cannot say from poor lab analysis..at base iso even with the low dr , my k10d files are much " interesting" than the k5 file....for me cmos flat the image. ccd produce a 3d feeling. in my opinion when the first sample will come out, many mf users will discover that the new gassy produce images that are similar to d800 or k5 with simply more resolution.

tuco · 01-24-2014, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by jonny1986

ccd at base iso produce simply better images, something that dxi cannot say from poor lab analysis..at base iso even with the low dr , my k10d files are much " interesting" than the k5 file....for me cmos flat the image. ccd produce a 3d feeling. in my opinion when the first sample will come out, many mf users will discover that the new gassy produce images that are similar to d800 or k5 with simply more resolution.

So we should all forget about any other type of photography that demands more than ISO 100, shoot landscapes and be happy?

normhead · 01-24-2014, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by tuco

So we should all forget about any other type of photography that demands more than ISO 100, shoot landscapes and be happy?

No, just the landscape guys...

tuco · 01-24-2014, 04:43 PM

Well, before anyone shoots down this new CMOS MFD sensor in a ball of flames, they really should keep an open mind and see what the results look like IMHO. Right now it's pure speculation by extrapolation.

normhead · 01-24-2014, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Right now it's pure speculation by extrapolation.

Can we quote this line when it's needed in the future?

tuco · 01-24-2014, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by normhead

Can we quote this line when it's needed in the future?

That cuts both ways Norm. If it turns out the new tech has higher dynamic range and has good color, then perhaps landscapers will love it.

ElJamoquio · 01-24-2014, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Well, before anyone shoots down this new CMOS MFD sensor in a ball of flames, they really should keep an open mind and see what the results look like IMHO. Right now it's pure speculation by extrapolation.

I'm fine with the CMOS, and high ISO people will love it.

However it seems as if sensor technology (CMOS definitely, probably CCD) has plateaued over the past 3.5-4 years. From an engineering/historical perspective, it's unlikely that a 'breakthrough' sony sensor would first appear on a 44x33 chip. From a marketing perspective, you'd want to have your breakthrough performance come in on the 44x33 chip.

I guess my 'net' interpretation is that the sensor will be an improvement over the CCD overall - equal at low ISO but far superior at high ISO (easy prediction, of course). But I'm not a 'CCD guy'. I love the 645D pics but thought the K200D was far worse than the K-5 in terms of colors.

**Rondec** · 01-25-2014, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

I'm fine with the CMOS, and high ISO people will love it.

However it seems as if sensor technology (CMOS definitely, probably CCD) has plateaued over the past 3.5-4 years. From an engineering/historical perspective, it's unlikely that a 'breakthrough' sony sensor would first appear on a 44x33 chip. From a marketing perspective, you'd want to have your breakthrough performance come in on the 44x33 chip.

I guess my 'net' interpretation is that the sensor will be an improvement over the CCD overall - equal at low ISO but far superior at high ISO (easy prediction, of course). But I'm not a 'CCD guy'. I love the 645D pics but thought the K200D was far worse than the K-5 in terms of colors.

It is hard for me to tell. I like the K5 files a lot and they are a lot more amenable to processing that K10 files, particularly from a dynamic range stand point and from the standpoint of photos taken above base iso.

I do think a 645D with CMOS sensor will be basically like a D800, but with a bigger sensor. Which is probably fine. It will give a little more lee way in moving up in iso, give quicker response and maybe even offer options like live view and video (not that medium format shooters will be interested in things like that).

jonny1986 · 01-25-2014, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by tuco

So we should all forget about any other type of photography that demands more than ISO 100, shoot landscapes and be happy?

no...and i use my 645d at every iso i can, iso 1600 is actually pretty good, id say a stop les than d800 but pretty usable..

if i need a fast camera with good base iso and good high iso control, i buy the d800 dfor 2800 dollar, not a camera that cost from 10 to 30k..these camera have a sense when they produce the best output, not a snapshot at high iso..there is already a sample in aforuj of iso 1600, id say not different from pentax 645d, and simply worst than any 35 slr.
so what s the point? maybe wedding photographer will benefit.

you have used a 645d at high iso? what are your impression.

jonny1986 · 01-25-2014, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

It is hard for me to tell. I like the K5 files a lot and they are a lot more amenable to processing that K10 files, particularly from a dynamic range stand point and from the standpoint of photos taken above base iso.

I do think a 645D with CMOS sensor will be basically like a D800, but with a bigger sensor. Which is probably fine. It will give a little more lee way in moving up in iso, give quicker response and maybe even offer options like live view and video (not that medium format shooters will be interested in things like that).

will see. for me the ccd at base iso is unbeatable, and i'm talking about what i see from a d800 and a 645d. so ithe next 645d2 produce file similar in quality to d800 i will be disappointed.
in my opinion people should before use the 645d and compare to a comps sensor than talk.

Zygonyx · 01-25-2014, 06:07 AM

Well jonny, you encourage me keeping my 645D...

jonny1986 · 01-25-2014, 06:31 AM

because u have doubt?...bnut ill buy your in case for a 1000 dollar!!

)...
the 65d has less dynamic in shadow than my k5 or d800 but it has a very good control f specular highlight and highlight in general, so with d800 you shoot for pushing shadow , with 645d i shoot on the right and pull highlight...similar results but much more natural rendition...in addiction i use more and more graduated...i find pushing shadow with my k5 creates mostly unnatural images.
personally i won't buy a cmos pentax 645d2, ok maybe if he had live view and sensor stabilized ok

, but let's wait the samples. in get dpi forum of medium format many user of technical camera raised many critics...let's wait. sure is good that the price of old back will lower, i have only dreamt of buy a technical camera with a back.

jogiba · 01-25-2014, 06:59 AM

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/249...ml#post2662311

I think the 645D II with this sensor would be great but I think the price will be higher than the 645D IMHO.

ogl · 01-25-2014, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Ayoh

Phase One IQ250 - 11 things to know - DT Blog

Sony sensor it is, which is surprising considering the low volume. Quite likely Pentax will be using CMOS too. Exciting change in the medium format market.

1.2 fps
http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/IQ2-Series/~/media/Phase%20One/1-C...et_200114.ashx
http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/IQ2-Series/IQ2-Specifications.aspx

01-25-2014, 06:31 AM	#73
jonny1986 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: italy Posts: 411	because u have doubt?...bnut ill buy your in case for a 1000 dollar!!)... the 65d has less dynamic in shadow than my k5 or d800 but it has a very good control f specular highlight and highlight in general, so with d800 you shoot for pushing shadow , with 645d i shoot on the right and pull highlight...similar results but much more natural rendition...in addiction i use more and more graduated...i find pushing shadow with my k5 creates mostly unnatural images. personally i won't buy a cmos pentax 645d2, ok maybe if he had live view and sensor stabilized ok, but let's wait the samples. in get dpi forum of medium format many user of technical camera raised many critics...let's wait. sure is good that the price of old back will lower, i have only dreamt of buy a technical camera with a back.

01-25-2014, 06:59 AM	#74
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	videos with the new 50mp Sony CMOS sensor https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/76-non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/249...ml#post2662311 I think the 645D II with this sensor would be great but I think the price will be higher than the 645D IMHO.

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01-24-2014, 03:56 PM	#61
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,020	Originally posted by jogiba Wow, some deep pockets here ! I think its the idea of a MFD that is made to adapt 35mm lenses with full auto functionality so you can shoot it as either a 35mm camera with reduced MP count or native mode. Kind of like shooting DX lenses on a FX Nikon camera where it automatically adjusts.

01-24-2014, 04:23 PM	#62
jonny1986 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: italy Posts: 411	ccd at base iso produce simply better images, something that dxi cannot say from poor lab analysis..at base iso even with the low dr , my k10d files are much " interesting" than the k5 file....for me cmos flat the image. ccd produce a 3d feeling. in my opinion when the first sample will come out, many mf users will discover that the new gassy produce images that are similar to d800 or k5 with simply more resolution.

01-24-2014, 04:30 PM	#63
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,020	Originally posted by jonny1986 ccd at base iso produce simply better images, something that dxi cannot say from poor lab analysis..at base iso even with the low dr , my k10d files are much " interesting" than the k5 file....for me cmos flat the image. ccd produce a 3d feeling. in my opinion when the first sample will come out, many mf users will discover that the new gassy produce images that are similar to d800 or k5 with simply more resolution. So we should all forget about any other type of photography that demands more than ISO 100, shoot landscapes and be happy?

01-24-2014, 04:33 PM	#64
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by tuco So we should all forget about any other type of photography that demands more than ISO 100, shoot landscapes and be happy? No, just the landscape guys...

01-24-2014, 04:43 PM	#65
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,020	Well, before anyone shoots down this new CMOS MFD sensor in a ball of flames, they really should keep an open mind and see what the results look like IMHO. Right now it's pure speculation by extrapolation.

01-24-2014, 07:03 PM	#66
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	Originally posted by tuco Right now it's pure speculation by extrapolation. Can we quote this line when it's needed in the future?

01-24-2014, 08:36 PM	#67
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,020	Originally posted by normhead Can we quote this line when it's needed in the future? That cuts both ways Norm. If it turns out the new tech has higher dynamic range and has good color, then perhaps landscapers will love it.

01-24-2014, 09:15 PM	#68
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by tuco Well, before anyone shoots down this new CMOS MFD sensor in a ball of flames, they really should keep an open mind and see what the results look like IMHO. Right now it's pure speculation by extrapolation. I'm fine with the CMOS, and high ISO people will love it. However it seems as if sensor technology (CMOS definitely, probably CCD) has plateaued over the past 3.5-4 years. From an engineering/historical perspective, it's unlikely that a 'breakthrough' sony sensor would first appear on a 44x33 chip. From a marketing perspective, you'd want to have your breakthrough performance come in on the 44x33 chip. I guess my 'net' interpretation is that the sensor will be an improvement over the CCD overall - equal at low ISO but far superior at high ISO (easy prediction, of course). But I'm not a 'CCD guy'. I love the 645D pics but thought the K200D was far worse than the K-5 in terms of colors.

01-25-2014, 04:29 AM	#69
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	Originally posted by ElJamoquio I'm fine with the CMOS, and high ISO people will love it. However it seems as if sensor technology (CMOS definitely, probably CCD) has plateaued over the past 3.5-4 years. From an engineering/historical perspective, it's unlikely that a 'breakthrough' sony sensor would first appear on a 44x33 chip. From a marketing perspective, you'd want to have your breakthrough performance come in on the 44x33 chip. I guess my 'net' interpretation is that the sensor will be an improvement over the CCD overall - equal at low ISO but far superior at high ISO (easy prediction, of course). But I'm not a 'CCD guy'. I love the 645D pics but thought the K200D was far worse than the K-5 in terms of colors. It is hard for me to tell. I like the K5 files a lot and they are a lot more amenable to processing that K10 files, particularly from a dynamic range stand point and from the standpoint of photos taken above base iso. I do think a 645D with CMOS sensor will be basically like a D800, but with a bigger sensor. Which is probably fine. It will give a little more lee way in moving up in iso, give quicker response and maybe even offer options like live view and video (not that medium format shooters will be interested in things like that).

01-25-2014, 05:26 AM	#70
jonny1986 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: italy Posts: 411	Originally posted by tuco So we should all forget about any other type of photography that demands more than ISO 100, shoot landscapes and be happy? no...and i use my 645d at every iso i can, iso 1600 is actually pretty good, id say a stop les than d800 but pretty usable.. if i need a fast camera with good base iso and good high iso control, i buy the d800 dfor 2800 dollar, not a camera that cost from 10 to 30k..these camera have a sense when they produce the best output, not a snapshot at high iso..there is already a sample in aforuj of iso 1600, id say not different from pentax 645d, and simply worst than any 35 slr. so what s the point? maybe wedding photographer will benefit. you have used a 645d at high iso? what are your impression.

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01-25-2014, 05:28 AM	#71
jonny1986 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: italy Posts: 411	Originally posted by Rondec It is hard for me to tell. I like the K5 files a lot and they are a lot more amenable to processing that K10 files, particularly from a dynamic range stand point and from the standpoint of photos taken above base iso. I do think a 645D with CMOS sensor will be basically like a D800, but with a bigger sensor. Which is probably fine. It will give a little more lee way in moving up in iso, give quicker response and maybe even offer options like live view and video (not that medium format shooters will be interested in things like that). will see. for me the ccd at base iso is unbeatable, and i'm talking about what i see from a d800 and a 645d. so ithe next 645d2 produce file similar in quality to d800 i will be disappointed. in my opinion people should before use the 645d and compare to a comps sensor than talk.

01-25-2014, 06:07 AM	#72
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Well jonny, you encourage me keeping my 645D...

01-25-2014, 08:46 AM	#75
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Ayoh Phase One IQ250 - 11 things to know - DT Blog Sony sensor it is, which is surprising considering the low volume. Quite likely Pentax will be using CMOS too. Exciting change in the medium format market. 1.2 fps http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/IQ2-Series/~/media/Phase%20One/1-C...et_200114.ashx http://www.phaseone.com/en/Camera-Systems/IQ2-Series/IQ2-Specifications.aspx