645N problems with COLD??

The dog walker · 01-22-2014, 01:30 PM

I just shot my 645n in about -14 to -17 degrees celcius and it was out there for about 3 hours. The batteries seem to have done fine but I did notice the camera kind of slowing down. After I developed my negatives some of the frames had a solid line across the horizontal plane in about the middle of the negative. The line is anywhere from 1/16th to almost 1/4 inch thick and it is definitely not from developing techniques. I suspect it is the focal plane curtain lagging .... is this caused by the cold or is my camera kind of in need of a CLA?

Anyone experience similar problems??

Adam · 01-22-2014, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by The dog walker

I just shot my 645n in about -14 to -17 degrees celcius and it was out there for about 3 hours. The batteries seem to have done fine but I did notice the camera kind of slowing down. After I developed my negatives some of the frames had a solid line across the horizontal plane in about the middle of the negative. The line is anywhere from 1/16th to almost 1/4 inch thick and it is definitely not from developing techniques. I suspect it is the focal plane curtain lagging .... is this caused by the cold or is my camera kind of in need of a CLA?

Anyone experience similar problems??

It's probably the cold. I think the minimum operating temp per the specs is 0C if not higher.

**gofour3** · 01-22-2014, 02:12 PM

The 645n manual indicates it's operating temperature to be +50C to -10C, so yes the cold may have caused issues.

I do not have the camera, so I can't say for sure.

I have used my film KX at -15C with no issues, though it's rated down to -20C.

Phil.

**dms** · 01-22-2014, 02:22 PM

It used to be necessary to replace the lubricants/winterize cameras--but I don't believe so since (about?) the 1970-1980's'. However lubricants do not age well (principally I believe because they get dirty/and oxidize) and I suggest you have the camera cleaned and mention that you use it at low temperature. It may not handle as smoothly if it is winterized, but all should work fine.

Last edited by dms; 01-22-2014 at 04:45 PM.

stevebrot · 01-22-2014, 02:23 PM

The manual indicates a working temperature range of 50 C to -10 C. I too would suspect cold.

Steve

adelorenzo · 01-23-2014, 09:05 AM

I've shot my 645N and 645NII in temps below -30 without any shutter issue.

Were the frames with the problems the last ones you shot? If so that would probably support the theory that it was getting too cold for the shutter.

Pioneer · 01-23-2014, 09:14 AM

I used an SV for awhile that had shutter capping issues that would only show up when the camera got cold. Worked fine when it was warm.

Finally had it repaired and now it doesn't seem to have that problem.

Silent Street · 01-23-2014, 06:03 PM

It surprises me that people want to take their cameras into such temperatures. Most cameras will suffer some form of derangement in very cold operating conditions caused by cold soak — as the camera is left out longer, the cold works its way into and through the camera, progressively seizing everything from gears to batteries. In such conditions film can also be embrittled and tear (common with 67, 6x7 cameras where the film is under a lot of tension across the shutter).

I would favour a completely manual camera (or the one I have, a 67!) that is not dependent on batteries in these severe cold conditions e.g. large format, but every camera will present its own challenges and LF especially is among the most challenging of all in extreme conditions.

wombat2go · 01-23-2014, 08:12 PM

I had the old Speed Graphic out in { 0 F, -20 Celsius} with the Takumar 6x7 55mm.
Big and heavy but shutter and all seems to work nicely with heavy mitts etc.
120 Film seemed to wind smoothly thru the 8 shots, I have not processed yet.

**gofour3** · 01-23-2014, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by Silent Street

It surprises me that people want to take their cameras into such temperatures.

That’s the reality of living in Canada.

For me a nice sunny winter day where it’s 5C to -10C is perfect for shooting, as long as it's not too windy. It would be a shame to miss shooting on days like those, especially here where it rains so much. I have shot in colder than -10C, but it starts to become too much of a chore trying to stay warm.

Phil.

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 01-27-2014, 08:37 AM

I was out shooting with my Pentax 6x7 at -10C yesterday. Meeter still worked fine, but on some shots the mirror didn't return until I advanced the film again. Haven't seen that problem at warmer temperatures, even though I have so far only run a half dussin films through it.

01-22-2014, 01:30 PM	#1
The dog walker Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: London, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 58	645N problems with COLD?? I just shot my 645n in about -14 to -17 degrees celcius and it was out there for about 3 hours. The batteries seem to have done fine but I did notice the camera kind of slowing down. After I developed my negatives some of the frames had a solid line across the horizontal plane in about the middle of the negative. The line is anywhere from 1/16th to almost 1/4 inch thick and it is definitely not from developing techniques. I suspect it is the focal plane curtain lagging .... is this caused by the cold or is my camera kind of in need of a CLA? Anyone experience similar problems??

01-22-2014, 02:03 PM	#2
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	Originally posted by The dog walker I just shot my 645n in about -14 to -17 degrees celcius and it was out there for about 3 hours. The batteries seem to have done fine but I did notice the camera kind of slowing down. After I developed my negatives some of the frames had a solid line across the horizontal plane in about the middle of the negative. The line is anywhere from 1/16th to almost 1/4 inch thick and it is definitely not from developing techniques. I suspect it is the focal plane curtain lagging .... is this caused by the cold or is my camera kind of in need of a CLA? Anyone experience similar problems?? It's probably the cold. I think the minimum operating temp per the specs is 0C if not higher. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

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01-22-2014, 02:12 PM	#3
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	The 645n manual indicates it's operating temperature to be +50C to -10C, so yes the cold may have caused issues. I do not have the camera, so I can't say for sure. I have used my film KX at -15C with no issues, though it's rated down to -20C. Phil.

01-22-2014, 02:22 PM	#4
dms Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: New York, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,192	It used to be necessary to replace the lubricants/winterize cameras--but I don't believe so since (about?) the 1970-1980's'. However lubricants do not age well (principally I believe because they get dirty/and oxidize) and I suggest you have the camera cleaned and mention that you use it at low temperature. It may not handle as smoothly if it is winterized, but all should work fine. Last edited by dms; 01-22-2014 at 04:45 PM.

01-22-2014, 02:23 PM	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	The manual indicates a working temperature range of 50 C to -10 C. I too would suspect cold. Steve

01-23-2014, 09:05 AM	#6
adelorenzo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Posts: 171	I've shot my 645N and 645NII in temps below -30 without any shutter issue. Were the frames with the problems the last ones you shot? If so that would probably support the theory that it was getting too cold for the shutter.

01-23-2014, 09:14 AM	#7
Pioneer Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wandering the Streets Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,411	I used an SV for awhile that had shutter capping issues that would only show up when the camera got cold. Worked fine when it was warm. Finally had it repaired and now it doesn't seem to have that problem.

01-23-2014, 06:03 PM	#8
Silent Street Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Castlemaine, Victoria, AUS Photos: Albums Posts: 1,151	It surprises me that people want to take their cameras into such temperatures. Most cameras will suffer some form of derangement in very cold operating conditions caused by cold soak — as the camera is left out longer, the cold works its way into and through the camera, progressively seizing everything from gears to batteries. In such conditions film can also be embrittled and tear (common with 67, 6x7 cameras where the film is under a lot of tension across the shutter). I would favour a completely manual camera (or the one I have, a 67!) that is not dependent on batteries in these severe cold conditions e.g. large format, but every camera will present its own challenges and LF especially is among the most challenging of all in extreme conditions.

01-23-2014, 08:12 PM	#9
wombat2go Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Michigan Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	I had the old Speed Graphic out in { 0 F, -20 Celsius} with the Takumar 6x7 55mm. Big and heavy but shutter and all seems to work nicely with heavy mitts etc. 120 Film seemed to wind smoothly thru the 8 shots, I have not processed yet.

01-23-2014, 10:53 PM	#10
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	Originally posted by Silent Street It surprises me that people want to take their cameras into such temperatures. That’s the reality of living in Canada. For me a nice sunny winter day where it’s 5C to -10C is perfect for shooting, as long as it's not too windy. It would be a shame to miss shooting on days like those, especially here where it rains so much. I have shot in colder than -10C, but it starts to become too much of a chore trying to stay warm. Phil.

01-27-2014, 08:37 AM	#11
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	I was out shooting with my Pentax 6x7 at -10C yesterday. Meeter still worked fine, but on some shots the mirror didn't return until I advanced the film again. Haven't seen that problem at warmer temperatures, even though I have so far only run a half dussin films through it.