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04-15-2014, 09:12 PM   #31
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Truth be told, a great many scanners are not calibrated That is neither the start or the end of the problem. Calibration alone will not guarantee a good scan. If a scanner defaults to sRGB, well and good, but the image will still need work (HSB, among). There are myriad additional tasks that must be completed outside of the scanner, profiling being the most critical if the destination is a printer (this implies that your screen is matched to the printer, not so much the scanner). That is my point: it is a bit lazy to assume the scanner is going to do everything without any further ado. It won't. A basic scan, calibrated or not, then exported into the working software where all the work takes place. The idea that there should be a profile for every type of film for a scanner is quite bizarre. One profile for all films is pretty much an industry standard when printing (sRGB or AdobeRGB). Additional profiles will only upset the established metrics of printers especially in labs/bureaux. A home printer is not a reliable point of reference. Labs will routinely strip out unknown profiles and default to whatever they are using (and doubtless charge the client for the inconvenience).

04-15-2014, 10:40 PM   #32
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There's really nothing strange about expecting that you should be able to scan a photograph, then print it, and have it come out about the same. I think this is the frustration the OP's expressing.

The reality is far different, most of the time. It would have been better if this had been standardized a long time ago. And it could have been, for the most part. Thankfully we have some reasonably sophisticated color management capabilities. But it can take a lot of work to put all the pieces together properly. And that's not productive work, that's just configuring things.



I agree that for better results proper PP and other work should be expected. And I even enjoy that work at times - for that matter, I often even enjoy doing the complex configuration. But sometimes I just want to get a result equivalent to the original, simply. Why should it be so hard? The scanner situation is almost like forcing everybody to shoot RAW, all the time - which is ridiculous.
04-16-2014, 07:29 AM   #33
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I agree with the above. The thing is, when doing the PP I get bet B&W negatives to look good pretty easily. Color slide film takes a little more work but some how or another I seem to always be able to come up with a result that looks very similar to what I'm seeing on the light table. But when it comes to color negatives I tweak this, slide that, add a little here, take away a tad there... I try everything and simply can't get realistic looking colors. I don't know why, but its really frustrating. I don't have any baseline reference except my memory of the scene, but you would think I could get colors that at least start to look real... but I am never happy with the results. I'm no PP wizard at all, but I've gotten pretty comfortable with Light Room and know how to use the majority of the features it offers. And yet I just can't get decent results with color negatives.

Here's an example... link I have a few more rolls and they all have the same, weirdly dull and inaccurate colors with absolutely no pop.
04-16-2014, 10:11 AM   #34
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When it comes to scanning software, especially Silverfast, one size does not fit all. The fact that there is a separate icon for Kodachrome speaks volumes about one software not being able to accomplish all film type scanning. One could argue that the operator could just tweak the colors when using the Kodachrome setting on any film type used. However, it is impossible to do that in most cases to make the slide look real. Velvia 100 is so different that Silverfast needed to have a setting for that film, so that shooters of that film could scan it successfully with their product. I have seen it scanned successfully on a Heidelberg Topaz with different software. Worked great.

04-16-2014, 11:17 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by desertscape Quote
When it comes to scanning software, especially Silverfast, one size does not fit all. The fact that there is a separate icon for Kodachrome speaks volumes about one software not being able to accomplish all film type scanning. One could argue that the operator could just tweak the colors when using the Kodachrome setting on any film type used. However, it is impossible to do that in most cases to make the slide look real. Velvia 100 is so different that Silverfast needed to have a setting for that film, so that shooters of that film could scan it successfully with their product. I have seen it scanned successfully on a Heidelberg Topaz with different software. Worked great.
Add Fuji Sensia 100 to the list. I can't get a scan anywhere close to the original with some slides. I guess it's the colours in some slides that are the issue, greens and reds seem the worst.

Phil.

Last edited by gofour3; 04-16-2014 at 11:23 AM.
04-17-2014, 02:14 PM   #36
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This is why sending to a pro lab (Caribou Film Lab in Canada, or Indie Film Lab in the US) makes the most sense. Let them deal with the technical details, and you can make more time to shoot.
04-19-2014, 10:51 AM - 1 Like   #37
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If you like the colors in the print, why not scan the print?

Color is very tricky, mostly because color is subjective--ie, not real, but a product of the human visual system. If you are trying to reproduce the color in a particular media like color print, it is important to understand how the media changes the color and contrast. I would scan at 16-bit and get a good file with the information in the film, then adjust to make the result you needs. Prints are pretty contrasty and so you will need to push things down into the shadows and up into the highlights. The problem with contrast is that it is not independent of saturation. You may have to tame your colors.

However, I would not recommend trying to reproduce prints in an electronic file. Prints are made from reflective dyes, not glowing phosphors. You can never get there. I would learn how to make the best image from the scan regardless of the print. There is nothing more "real" or "accurate" in the color photochemical process. It had a whole bunch of compromises and problems. But working with color is in some ways much harder than black and white. It will take some time for you to see color and to learn to control it. Patience.
04-19-2014, 08:34 PM   #38
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Good points! I think there is something about the analog effect of film, whether its the shooting experience or the final image result, that draws us toward it. No matter how digital we get we still try to simulate film with in-camera processing or post processing on a computer. Why go through the simulation when you can get the film-specific combination of white balance, saturation, contrast, coloration, etc by shooting film?

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