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05-01-2014, 07:22 PM   #1
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At what price does a used 645D make sense?

Now that we have firm pricing for the 645Z Im wondering what people think would be the right price for a used 645D? Given the extra resolution and usable high ISO of the 645Z (the major upgrades IMO) the Z is more than just a simple refresh of the D. If you had the money and were in the market, how much would you pay for a used 645D? For that matter if Pentax continues to sell the D alongside the Z what do you think a realistic price for a new 645D would be?

05-01-2014, 07:51 PM   #2
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Well, it really falls to what the difference is between the CCD of the D and the CMOS of the Z. The extra 10 mp isn't the biggest deal. Yes, the ISO boost may be the big deal, but to date one of the key things that DMF users have said about the difference between FF and DMF is tonality/color rendition. A lot of that difference has been attributed to the difference in sensor type, CCD vs CMOS. So, I guess we're about to see in a month (or as soon as we see some comparison shots). For me, it's not the difference between CCD and CMOS, but the jump up from FF to the maximum camera I will be able to afford, and the camera I've been waiting for all along, one that will be used both in the studio and in the field---so there are other important features to this camera for me. For studio shooters with lighting setups shooting at base ISO---and these are going to mainly be product, fashion and portrait people, it could be that the CMOS sensor doesn't really give them any advantage at all.

So, what will the 645D then be worth? Well, I've already seen prices around $6,500.00 usd, and I expect they'll drop a bit below that---but maybe not much. That number may be cost, for all we know. I would be surprised if the D is sold alongside the Z, so I think it's remaining stock sell-off time. For used? Well, there's the mileage issue. But aside from that, I'd say for the largest number of real potential purchasers, $3K is maybe the magic number to begin to trigger the sales. But for me, I'd much rather have the Z, and will be willing to endure the pain involved (and it will be painful...).

Last edited by texandrews; 05-01-2014 at 07:56 PM.
05-01-2014, 08:00 PM   #3
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In my opinion the 645 finds itself in the sort of market where if you can afford a new 645D you can afford a 645Z. I have no clue why they plan to keep both on the market at the same time. If they did a 645DII similar to the K5II where you have the same lower cost sensor but with a bunch of the really handy upgrades thrown in then it would make quite a bit of sense actually and probably sell.
As it stands now for as great as the original is I don't think it will last long on the market along side its replacement without a significantly larger price drop from the numbers I read now. If had the money for new it would have to be at least $3500 cheaper than the Z before I would even consider it.

As far as used, there are several on ebay that are body only for sub $4500, anyone who expects more than that for a used body only now is kidding themselves.

Last edited by PPPPPP42; 05-01-2014 at 08:24 PM.
05-01-2014, 09:21 PM   #4
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I don't think that there has been any actual announcement as to whether the 645D will be discontinued as soon as the 645Z ships, but there has been some speculation that Pentax might keep it on as an even lower priced entry to the 645 system. I guess that it will actually depend on whether there are enough of the CCD sensors still available or stockpiled for production to continue. The timing of the release of the 645Z has however been forced by fact that all of the other MF manufacturers will use the same CMOS chip. Pentax couldn't wait to run down existing stock of the 645D before announcing the 645Z, so there may be significant stock levels left of completed cameras or the CCD sensor that need to be sold.

05-01-2014, 10:40 PM   #5
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I wouldn't pay more for a 645D than for a D800E. So it needs to be in the 4-5k range w/lenses to make sense IMHO.

For the 645Z, on the other hand, I'd be willing to pay MSRP as you'd otherwise have to pay tens of thousands to get comparable image quality from another system.

As for the retail price of the 645D, it seems that Pentax USA is keeping it at 6.5-7k. According to John Carlson, who posted on the forum the day the 645Z came out, the 645D will stay in the lineup for now.
05-01-2014, 11:07 PM   #6
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On a couple of news/comment aggregation sites, with the announcement of the Z, the general comments were that the D800e was a more preferable platform due to the larger lens selection and smaller physical size. They were also pushing better lens quality for the Nikon. So with the retail price of the D800e running between $2800 and $3300, I would think that would be a price point to expect the 645D to settle in around. Would that put used D in the $2000 to $2500 range? I don't know, but its an interesting thought.

I also think that there will be some interesting comparisons between the CMOS and CCD sensors in terms of color rendering especially at the base ISO levels.

I am wondering if they would retain the 645D selling new until the long rumored FF would be announced?

05-01-2014, 11:52 PM   #7
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645d

The original question about the appropriate value of a used 645D is of some interest to me, as I may well sell the D after the Z is in hand. I suppose the price will depend a lot on how many of us rush our used ones to market. Also, of those sold on the used market , how many are mint , how many are less than? I really really wish i could get 8500 dollars for my used 645D (LOL), but i suspect below 4000 after the Z arrives……..
05-02-2014, 04:28 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
So with the retail price of the D800e running between $2800 and $3300, I would think that would be a price point to expect the 645D to settle in around.
Why? Thats what the sensor alone cost....

05-02-2014, 06:37 AM   #9
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Here in Japan the 645D is currently selling for 498,000 new (body only) at Fujiya Camera, one of Tokyo's well known shops. Used ones are still priced over $4,000 but I imagine that will begin to change before too long. Sadly I don't have much more to add to this conversation since $3,000 or $4,000 or $8,000 are all the same to me; nothing but dreams...
05-03-2014, 11:08 AM   #10
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The trade off between the D and Z comes down to a lot of what your end use is. From a pure landscape or studio work I don't think there is really that much upgrade. 10MP is pretty minimal. You are into the range where it is plenty of resolution. When you think about it yes it has more resolution but at what point is it moot. If you print a large picture then you have to stand a certain distance back to capture it all in; print it larger and you have to stand a bit further back... If desperate for more then you stitch and it nets you far more than the 10mp improvement.

One thing that makes me very interested in the new Z is I use mine for wildlife and would like to open up more potential for astrophotography. So the sensor type is what I see.

Even if I get the Z I wouldn't sell the D I have now. But if I was to sell the D I would think I could get 3k for it. The number that I would have to get to make it worth selling for me is 5k... So it will be interesting to see just how many people will want to offload theirs vs keep it as a spare and for those colours of the CCD sensor. I don't know if the market will be flooded with them which could keep price a bit higher.

QuoteOriginally posted by Paul Ewins Quote
I don't think that there has been any actual announcement as to whether the 645D will be discontinued as soon as the 645Z ships, but there has been some speculation that Pentax might keep it on as an even lower priced entry to the 645 system. I guess that it will actually depend on whether there are enough of the CCD sensors still available or stockpiled for production to continue. The timing of the release of the 645Z has however been forced by fact that all of the other MF manufacturers will use the same CMOS chip. Pentax couldn't wait to run down existing stock of the 645D before announcing the 645Z, so there may be significant stock levels left of completed cameras or the CCD sensor that need to be sold.
The other manufactures will use it but they will still sell plenty of CCD backs at the same time. This new CMOS sensor won't come close to killing the CCD sensor for MF yet. In 3-5yrs is another story though... So good to jump on the road from the start then come in late. I applaud Pentax for that and that they keep price down. Now if they would just develop a proper AF system for it rather than grafting from the comparatively minute k mount dslr...

Last edited by atlnq9; 05-03-2014 at 05:01 PM.
05-04-2014, 07:56 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by PPPPPP42 Quote
In my opinion the 645 finds itself in the sort of market where if you can afford a new 645D you can afford a 645Z. I have no clue why they plan to keep both on the market at the same time. If they did a 645DII similar to the K5II where you have the same lower cost sensor but with a bunch of the really handy upgrades thrown in then it would make quite a bit of sense actually and probably sell.
As it stands now for as great as the original is I don't think it will last long on the market along side its replacement without a significantly larger price drop from the numbers I read now. If had the money for new it would have to be at least $3500 cheaper than the Z before I would even consider it.

As far as used, there are several on ebay that are body only for sub $4500, anyone who expects more than that for a used body only now is kidding themselves.
I know prices can change quickly in a used market, but I bought my 645D after the announcement of the Z but before the introduction. I paid $5K for mine with only 1500 clicks. I feel it is still a good price. If they get as low as $2800 like someone suggested, I'll be getting another, but I don't see them getting that cheap. The only MF that cheap are old tethered backs and things nobody wants.
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