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05-23-2014, 01:11 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ilovemypentax Quote
I would think there would be more interest here in the Z.

I may be interested in moving up from the 645D if the high ISO is in order in the Z. The low ISO of the D was always a hardship for me when shooing in dim light. But the sensor in the D gives some pretty painterly images that I wonder may be missing in the Z.

Are you considering purchasing a Z?
I think when it actually comes out there will be more buzz- it's estimated to start shipping next month.


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05-23-2014, 01:15 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
I think you need to simplify. Two digital platforms max.
I have come to that conclusion. I'll probably lose the A850 and the NEX 7, much as I love and like them both, and a bunch of the lenses I've built up to support them. I'd be left with the A7R and several lenses for a lightweight setup, and the 645/Z system for studio, tripod---heavy lifting type of work.

QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
I'm sure there could be artistic reasons for all of it, and there is some great glass like the Sony CZ 16-35, but even that is replaceable.
With the 645Z and A7R, there is no reason for the rest. The 16-35CZ will be a tough call perhaps, but I'm using it less and less. Handy for architecture, however, better than the 10-18 emount, although that lens has surprised me.
QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
When I get too spread out like that (and I rather enjoy the journey) it hampers me. I usually give myself too many options. I could probably cut my lens collection in half, but at least they're all one mount so it's still simple to me.
it doesn't hamper me, but it gathers dust. Also, my shooting has changed.

QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
It doesn't looked like you have specialized needs such as sports photography, so sell a bunch of that (mostly commonly available) gear, get the new camera,
This is the plan
QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
chose a new 645 lens for it (I'm sure there's one you still need), and enjoy the process.
Actually, I'm pretty well covered for the 645. Only the 25 would be very desirable, but I won't be getting that. The only other possibility would be a tele beyond the 200. I can do A series for that.
05-23-2014, 01:22 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrankC Quote
As a 645D owner, I'll admit it took me a while to save up for it. So I can't justify spending an additional $8,600 for a replacement that doesn't appear to be a huge increase in image quality.
Sure the Z has a flappy screen and ultra-high ISO, but I rarely ever shoot above ISO100. I don't need video and the 25% increase in pixels isn't something that I need either.
At this point I would rather see Pentax come out with a 645 with an even larger sensor so my wide angle lenses would become even wider as opposed to any video, articulated screen or increase in pixels or ISO sensitivity. Because for me, all I need is a viewfinder, a shutter release and control over the focusing, aperture and shutter - everything else is gravy.
I doubt Pentax is considering this, but if they are you can be sure they'll be watching the sales of the IQ280 vs. IQ250. Also they need someone to make the sensor for them, and probably not exclusively for them either, so they're reliant on a sensor manufacturer who wants to do this.
05-23-2014, 01:48 PM   #19
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The 645Z looks to be a great camera but it's a niche for 2 reasons: cost and size. If I was offered one for free, I would obviously accept but would not use the camera much due to its extra weight and bulk. I can easily bring a K-5 to work or on a day hike. The 645Z potentially yields better photos but the extra weight and bulk would limit my overall photo opportunities. It's the larger lenses, heavier tripod, bigger bag, etc. in addition to the extra ounces of the camera body.

05-23-2014, 02:40 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
I can easily bring a K-5 to work or on a day hike.
Although if you wanted to use any MF for field work, surely the 645Z is the one.
05-23-2014, 04:26 PM   #21
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Money is the issue for me too. I own and frequently use the P645N along with three other medium format film cameras. I have a full line up of A-series lenses that I really enjoy. So it's fun to dream about the 645Z, even though the crop factor is a big drawback. I never was very attracted by the 645D since it just seemed too limited for the types of photography I do.

But with the 645Z there is an outside chance I could use it as my primary digital camera and this makes things interesting. I have a Sony A77 and a very nice collection of lenses. If I sold all of them I might actually be able to afford the 645Z. That seems crazy but the even just the potential makes thinking about the 645Z much funner. But honestly though, it would be very hard to part with some of my Minolta lenses (STF, 300/2.8, 200/2.8, 85/1.4, 35/1.4 etc.)
05-24-2014, 10:59 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Although if you wanted to use any MF for field work, surely the 645Z is the one.
Absolutely. This utility is a huge part of the appeal---the weatherproofing, the far superior iso performance combine to make this an excellent camera for field use. Compared to even what is involved with a technical camera or 2x3 or 4x5 fierld camera, the latter of which I have used in the field, the 645Z holds enormous possibilities of flexibility, compactness and lighter weight (LF lenses on lens boards, film holders, Polaroid backs, dark cloths and loupes all do weigh something!)---plus now more hand-holdability. These aspects of the camera are a huge deal.
05-26-2014, 05:26 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
It's all about the money.
it's not that I'm not interested. It's that the cost benefit analysis isn't making economic sense.
+1

If I were able to make an huge win at the lottery, after buying a lot of other things photography related, probably I would just rent some digital back (if possible) especially if this would allow me a competitive advantage in terms of money...
On that case, ideally, I would like:
- a CMOS sensor with a size of 40.4mmx59.9mm
- a digital back (1) of 60 Megapixel
- Leaf shutters optics
- a body for the digital back similar at the Pentax 645Z
so a combination of elements that don't exist.

1) Because the body of MF camera are far behind compared to full-frame solutions therefore there is plenty of scope for improvement while a digital back has a very long life so If it have already everything that you like there is no need to change it.


Last edited by alexfoto; 05-26-2014 at 08:08 AM.
05-26-2014, 12:11 PM   #24
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I am prepared to part with my Nikon kit: D800E, D3x, 24-70G, 14-24G, 5 Zeiss ZFs but the 645Z and the lenses I want will all have to be in stock at the same time before I make such a move. I am thinking about the 35mm, 55mm & 75mm to start with though I'd like digital versions of the 35mm and 75mm. I'd really like to have the 25mm but I haven't seen a sample landscape image that convinces me.


I'd also like to find a concise guide to alternate lenses (and the appropriate adaptors that will allow mounting on the 645Z) like the gentleman at Pebble Place has done for Canon.
05-26-2014, 05:03 PM   #25
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I'm very interested, but a few things are holding me back. I'm also looking to part with my Nikon equipment. I'd have to sell most if not all of it to get the 645Z with 2-3 lenses. One thing holding me back is that I'm not entirely convinced by the Pentax lenses. So far I've been unable to try any of them because retailer support in Sydney is borderline non existent. From all the samples I've seen online, there isn't one Pentax lens that renders like the Nikon 200/f2 or the Zeiss Otus (I don't have the Otus...yet). Comparing them myself might tell a different story though.

The other thing is, if I decide that I want (or would like to try), an accessory or lens for my current system, I can walk into any camera store and chances are they'll have it or they can get it quickly.
Perhaps things will change when the 645Z starts shipping, but with Australia being a relatively small market, it doesn't look very promising.

I'd be more comfortable with the idea of buying the body itself without trying it once it gets into photographers' hands and it's reviewed thoroughly in various conditions with various lenses.
It would be nice if Pentax had similar dealer support as Phase One etc., but since they're not charging $40K for a single lens setup, we can't really complain too much.
05-26-2014, 05:37 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by funkysmurf Quote
From all the samples I've seen online, there isn't one Pentax lens that renders like the Nikon 200/f2 or the Zeiss Otus (I don't have the Otus...yet). Comparing them myself might tell a different story though.
There may not be one that renders like the 200/2 - perhaps a 645 owner can comment here. That's an exceptional lens you may choose not to replace.

But the Zeiss OTUS - is that really the standard you want to reach for? While it's an impressive achievement - yielding objective sharpness while retaining nice rendering and backgrounds - I don't think it's the most beautiful output possible at that focal length. Are you sure that's what you're looking for? The day I decided to buy the FA77 over the DA70 (a last minute change in direction) was the day I decided sharpness wasn't going to be my highest priority.

If it's what you want, then great. I think the OTUS is the best example yet of producing a nice rendering lens for the modern mindset. And it's much better than Sigma's answer, IMO. I'm just not sure this is the best direction for most photographers to be headed.
05-26-2014, 07:05 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
There may not be one that renders like the 200/2 - perhaps a 645 owner can comment here.
Hopefully that's not the case. I've seen a shot posted on this forum with the 300mm f/4 that's almost there, but not quite. It's a shot of synchronised swimming. With regard to the Otus - the reason I stayed away thus far is its lack of AF coupled with the fact that the 50mm range doesn't do much for me.

It looks like the release of the 645Z is only about a week away in the US so hopefully we'll get more hands on impressions and possibly even a review or two from those who may have been able to use pre production units under NDAs.
05-26-2014, 07:29 PM - 1 Like   #28
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The original 645D was a category killer camera that won awards and all kinds of acclaim, but still received very little interest in the general market. There were all kinds of reasons for this -- the price, the general perceived lack of lenses, lack of major marketing by the company outside of Japan, people being satisfied with their 35mm kit or being dissatisfied but held back by some of the shortcomings of the 645D.

The plan around the 645Z launch, plus the camera itself, are addressing several of the key challenges faced by the 645D. The launch price is ~20% less, the performance of the camera is much improved with some key "creature comforts" from current 35mm kit such as Live View, and the FA lens series is being officially brought back to North America. Even tethering support might be better. Other challenges remain, one of the biggest being that this is still a particular camera that isn't designed for everyone. So even if the market interest in the Z is 10X the level of interest in the D, it still will be a relatively niche product... though I predict it will be a successful niche product.

Anyway, I'm not overly worried about the current level of interest out there, as long as it's enough for Ricoh to keep supporting this platform for a while yet. Because this is a camera that was designed for me. I built out a pretty good kit with the 645D and I'm going to get hold of a 645Z as fast as I can. If it proves out, I'm going to be very pleased with it since I'm already very pleased after 3+ years of hard shooting on the 645D, even including blowing a shutter after 50K actuations on one of my bodies.

I have just recently decided to put an end to nearly my entire Canon 35mm kit because I really dislike using it any more after shooting the 645D system. I had just as much, if not more, invested in my Canon equipment so I will take that loss when selling everything off. Even though several Canon lenses will be painful to lose, I've found the 645 lenses more than good enough for most of what I do, as is the rest of the 645D system. The things it didn't do well were (mostly) not really critical for me. There are some exceptions, such as Canon's tilt-shift lenses. I'll retain those and pair them with a new Sony a7R and a couple of Sony FE mount lenses. That will be my lightweight travel rig and my architecture kit. For everything else where it can be used, the Pentax will continue to be #1 for me.

So far in my 3+ years of travels with the 645D, I've only encountered one other 645D shooter in the wild. But already in the past few weeks I've met two new ones locally who jumped on board with 645D purchases once the 645Z announcement hit and the D prices came down. A few more photographers will come into the 645 digital system that way, not just all with net new purchases of the Z. Many D owners are potential Z owners, sometime later.

I'm not rich, and I don't think I'm crazy. What I do is make photos in which I love details, tones and colours; and I like to print, whether small or big. I was convinced by the first files I saw come out of my 645D in Nov. 2010. If there are more photographers like me out there, then the 645Z can't fail to do much better than the 645D. Especially if the image results really deliver on the promise of the tech specs. I intend to find out soon...
05-26-2014, 07:35 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I think when it actually comes out there will be more buzz- it's estimated to start shipping next month.
The latest I've read is it will be the end of next month, not the beginning. Is this what you understand too?

Pentax 645z medium format camera to start shipping on June 27th | Photo Rumors
05-26-2014, 07:37 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
The latest I've read is it will be the end of next month, not the beginning. Is this what you understand too?

Pentax 645z medium format camera to start shipping on June 27th | Photo Rumors
B&H is estimating May 30th now, but yes, the original press release said late June.

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