LL 645Z First Impressions Review

**DDoram** · 07-06-2014, 06:07 AM

Luminous Landscape have their first impressions up; generally quite positive but quite muted praise. If it was a Sony they might have raved about it.

Pentax 645Z First Impressions Review

Dale

hsteeves · 07-06-2014, 07:04 AM - **1 Like**

I am going to have to sell my 645Z and get an A7R and order a D810. I am so depressed. Oh well, time for morning beer.

**EssJayEff** · 07-06-2014, 07:13 AM

With the exception of the terrible video problem, I read it as a very positive review. Their big concern was where the 645Z resides within the current marketplace in relation to FF 35mm camera and their price points. The only quibble I had was their comparison of the way you might work with the camera vis-a-vis the Hasselblad: the latter makes you slow down ("The fact it's hard to use makes me a better user") while the Pentax, being easier to handle might lead one's work to suffer. ("I'd prefer the 645z's usability and durability for sure. But in work-style, I like what the Hassy makes me do. If I need or want speed and convenience, I use a smaller system.") I just can't buy that argument. Just imagine . . . the 645Z would let you do BOTH!

Painter · 07-06-2014, 07:27 AM

It seems to me that the writers injected too much of their personal biases. Over all they seem to be looking to make a negative comment on many points. Perhaps some more time with the camera would help but either way it's the results that count.

Last edited by Painter; 07-06-2014 at 07:38 AM.

stevebrot · 07-06-2014, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by Painter

It seems to me that the writers injected too much of their personal biases.

Welcome to Luminous Landscape! While I have tremendous respect for the site, personal bias is their hallmark. That is not a bad thing, however.

Steve

VisualDarkness · 07-06-2014, 10:39 AM

I read it as positive with the good note that an average user won't be able to pull off all that little extra this camera can offer compared to a nice 35mm. The video SR is probably the same as the seemingly brutal one in the K-3.

texandrews · 07-06-2014, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Painter

It seems to me that the writers injected too much of their personal biases. Over all they seem to be looking to make a negative comment on many points.

The first is a feature of LL: it's not a review site. They always give impressions from use in the field, and what they say has to be understood in that context. The second is that they say these things in direct relation to the price of the camera and to its closest competition. The new Z is competing on both sides of its position (FF and MF) for better or worse.

As an A7R owner I appreciate what they are saying---and in fact am very pleased! I'll be getting my Z this week, their comments don't dissuade me. That's because you always, always pay the most for the last bits of goodness, in just about everything---cameras, lenses, tripods, cars, food, clothes, & etc, etc. I recognize that and have accepted the value proposition---which I don't think is a bad one for the work I do now and hope to branch into. I am willing to pay the penalty. But I'd add that in a lot of ways this new camera, and the A7R, have solved some important technical issues for me in something of a definitive way. Because of that, they may wind up being cheaper than other options. I already have almost all the lenses I need for the Z, and the same for the A7R. I am now able to shed gear that is no longer needed, now that I have 2 of the best cameras available.

YMMV.

Last edited by texandrews; 07-06-2014 at 07:54 PM. Reason: spelling, grammar

Na Horuk · 07-06-2014, 11:22 AM

Quote:

But we have to put these relatively minor critiques in context: the 645Z is light-years ahead of any other MF-class camera, and frankly better than just about all of the FF 35mm machines in user interface. .

-LL

So then why so much fuss? Reviewers so often have a hard time admitting a Pentax product is great, that after the praise they feel compelled to complain about the smallest things. Like the WB and green button. Those buttons in no way detract from shooting experience, even if the photographer never uses them (and they can be convenient for those that want to use them). But other brands have such a bad interface (from the same review: " Using a Phase or Hassy body is pure agony after handling a "Z".") that is actually might be more time consuming and difficult to get the shots you want. This is a big difference, but it gets trivialized

"The "Z" is still a great user's camera." sounds mediocre, not like praise at all. But I guess you have to read it in comparison to "pure agony" and then choose which one of these you want.
A great "user's camera".. well who else should it be for, if not the user? Meh, it was an okay review, but the language used sometimes seems a bit biased

stevebrot · 07-06-2014, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by texandrews

The first is a feature of LL: it's not a review site. They always give impressions from use in the field, and what they say has to be understood in that context. The second is that they say these things in direct relation to the price of the camera and to its closest competition. The new Z is competing on both sides of its position (FF and MF) for better or worse.

As an A7R owner I appreciate what they are saying---and in fact am very pleased! I'll be getting my Z this week, their comments don't dissuade me. That's because you always, always pay the most for the last bits of goodness, in just about everything---cameras, lenses, tripods, cars, food, clothes, & etc, etc. I recognize and that and have accepted the value proposition---which I don't think is a bad one for the work I do now and hope to branch into. I am willing to pay the penalty. But I'd add that in a lot of ways this new camera, and the A7R, have solved some important technical issues for me in something of a definitive way. Because of that, they may wind up being cheaper than other options. I already have almost all the lenses I need for the Z, and the same for the A7R. I am now able to shed gear that is no longer needed, noe that I have 2 of the best cameras available.

YMMV.

My thoughts as well. They heaped high praise on the Z for the parts that they evaluated in depth, yawned a little in terms of the value proposition, gave credit for the price point in relation to the MF competition, and pointed out the puzzling aspects of the user controls (also shared with the K-3

). It was a shame that they chose to not investigate the video a little deeper, but video is not their focus, and they had the camera for a limited time.

Over all I think that the LL evaluation is a strong thumbs up for the Z for people for whom medium format digital is a good solution.

Steve

CDW · 07-06-2014, 03:39 PM

I thought the LL review was quite positive. The language used seemed quite similar to any number of reviews of theirs that I've read in the past. I was actually more surprised by the negative comments about the shutter shake of the 645D. I've never had that issue with my 645D. I tend to think it may be more myth than reality, much like the mirror shake issue of the film era Pentax 645s, that was proven over and over in various reviews to be non-existent, including an LL review, but believed otherwise by many.

The Z noise performance is stunning. For those of us who shoot night sky and nightscape photography, it's finally a dream come true.

robertchow999 · 07-06-2014, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by hsteeves

I am going to have to sell my 645Z and get an A7R and order a D810. I am so depressed. Oh well, time for morning beer.

I'll buy your 'z' for $4K since it is not so special as verified by LL.

Actually, I am more interested in the rubber eye cup which I always lose when I take out the big 'D' for a labor intensive day of shooting. Think of it as getting $4K for the rubber eye cup and you'll find it so much easier to part with the 'z', which I would consider a nice kick in.

Honestly, if you are satisfied with your new 'z', why be influenced by what any reviewer think?

hsteeves · 07-06-2014, 06:25 PM

sorry, the Z did not come with the rubber eye cup - just some round plastic screw on thing which came off 2 hours after I took it out of the box. Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass what LL thinks about the camera.

Class A · 07-06-2014, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Painter

It seems to me that the writers injected too much of their personal biases. Over all they seem to be looking to make a negative comment on many points.

That's their style with almost everything but Leica and Sony.

It is their pattern to use a good feature on another product (say the 645Z's auto mirror-lock up with a self-timer) to send messages to their darling companies ("why don't you do it like that?"), rather than actually crediting the other product.

Unless you are Leica and pay Michael Reichman trips around the world to make him feel important, you'll have a very hard time to get him exited about anything.
Sorry, if that is too sarcastic, but I'm annoyed by the opinionated pieces LL is calling reviews.

Originally posted by Painter

Perhaps some more time with the camera would help but either way it's the results that count.

LL did not take its time with the Pentax K-7 either, concluding that it is a mediocre camera that does nothing particularly well. A very superficial verdict that did injustice to a camera that clearly was the best choice for some at its time.

Originally posted by EssJayEff

The only quibble I had was their comparison of the way you might work with the camera vis-a-vis the Hasselblad: the latter makes you slow down ("The fact it's hard to use makes me a better user") while the Pentax, being easier to handle might lead one's work to suffer. ("I'd prefer the 645z's usability and durability for sure. But in work-style, I like what the Hassy makes me do. If I need or want speed and convenience, I use a smaller system.") I just can't buy that argument. Just imagine . . . the 645Z would let you do BOTH!

No, no, that's unimaginable!

You just cannot work slowly with a Pentax 645Z! Your shots will always be blurred due to you rushing around with it.

This site has become "Ludicrous Landscapes", AFAIC.

**Digitalis** · 07-06-2014, 10:25 PM

I though they gave the 645Z a lukewarm reception, they praised the physicality of the control layout in comparison to Hasselblad ( which is something that has annoyed me about their cameras for years) Their comparisons in terms of lens performance were somewhat skewed by their use of the 120mm f/4 Macro which is superbly sharp, isn't the best lens for general landscape work (they should have tried the 90mm f/2.8 OS).

itshimitis · 07-07-2014, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by hsteeves

sorry, the Z did not come with the rubber eye cup - just some round plastic screw on thing which came off 2 hours after I took it out of the box. Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass what LL thinks about the camera.

Contact your dealer - it does come with the rubber eye cup - the same that came with the D. yours must be missing

07-06-2014, 06:07 AM	#1
DDoram Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada Posts: 632	LL 645Z First Impressions Review Luminous Landscape have their first impressions up; generally quite positive but quite muted praise. If it was a Sony they might have raved about it. Pentax 645Z First Impressions Review Dale

07-06-2014, 07:13 AM	#3
EssJayEff Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: near Saxapahaw, NC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 974	With the exception of the terrible video problem, I read it as a very positive review. Their big concern was where the 645Z resides within the current marketplace in relation to FF 35mm camera and their price points. The only quibble I had was their comparison of the way you might work with the camera vis-a-vis the Hasselblad: the latter makes you slow down ("The fact it's hard to use makes me a better user") while the Pentax, being easier to handle might lead one's work to suffer. ("I'd prefer the 645z's usability and durability for sure. But in work-style, I like what the Hassy makes me do. If I need or want speed and convenience, I use a smaller system.") I just can't buy that argument. Just imagine . . . the 645Z would let you do BOTH! Last edited by EssJayEff; 07-06-2014 at 07:29 AM.

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07-06-2014, 07:04 AM - 1 Like	#2
hsteeves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 256	I am going to have to sell my 645Z and get an A7R and order a D810. I am so depressed. Oh well, time for morning beer.

07-06-2014, 07:27 AM	#4
Painter Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 348	It seems to me that the writers injected too much of their personal biases. Over all they seem to be looking to make a negative comment on many points. Perhaps some more time with the camera would help but either way it's the results that count. Last edited by Painter; 07-06-2014 at 07:38 AM.

07-06-2014, 10:04 AM	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Painter It seems to me that the writers injected too much of their personal biases. Welcome to Luminous Landscape! While I have tremendous respect for the site, personal bias is their hallmark. That is not a bad thing, however. Steve

07-06-2014, 10:39 AM	#6
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	I read it as positive with the good note that an average user won't be able to pull off all that little extra this camera can offer compared to a nice 35mm. The video SR is probably the same as the seemingly brutal one in the K-3.

07-06-2014, 11:14 AM	#7
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by Painter It seems to me that the writers injected too much of their personal biases. Over all they seem to be looking to make a negative comment on many points. The first is a feature of LL: it's not a review site. They always give impressions from use in the field, and what they say has to be understood in that context. The second is that they say these things in direct relation to the price of the camera and to its closest competition. The new Z is competing on both sides of its position (FF and MF) for better or worse. As an A7R owner I appreciate what they are saying---and in fact am very pleased! I'll be getting my Z this week, their comments don't dissuade me. That's because you always, always pay the most for the last bits of goodness, in just about everything---cameras, lenses, tripods, cars, food, clothes, & etc, etc. I recognize that and have accepted the value proposition---which I don't think is a bad one for the work I do now and hope to branch into. I am willing to pay the penalty. But I'd add that in a lot of ways this new camera, and the A7R, have solved some important technical issues for me in something of a definitive way. Because of that, they may wind up being cheaper than other options. I already have almost all the lenses I need for the Z, and the same for the A7R. I am now able to shed gear that is no longer needed, now that I have 2 of the best cameras available. YMMV. Last edited by texandrews; 07-06-2014 at 07:54 PM. Reason: spelling, grammar

07-06-2014, 11:22 AM	#8
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Quote: But we have to put these relatively minor critiques in context: the 645Z is light-years ahead of any other MF-class camera, and frankly better than just about all of the FF 35mm machines in user interface. . -LL So then why so much fuss? Reviewers so often have a hard time admitting a Pentax product is great, that after the praise they feel compelled to complain about the smallest things. Like the WB and green button. Those buttons in no way detract from shooting experience, even if the photographer never uses them (and they can be convenient for those that want to use them). But other brands have such a bad interface (from the same review: " Using a Phase or Hassy body is pure agony after handling a "Z".") that is actually might be more time consuming and difficult to get the shots you want. This is a big difference, but it gets trivialized "The "Z" is still a great user's camera." sounds mediocre, not like praise at all. But I guess you have to read it in comparison to "pure agony" and then choose which one of these you want. A great "user's camera".. well who else should it be for, if not the user? Meh, it was an okay review, but the language used sometimes seems a bit biased

07-06-2014, 11:25 AM	#9
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by texandrews The first is a feature of LL: it's not a review site. They always give impressions from use in the field, and what they say has to be understood in that context. The second is that they say these things in direct relation to the price of the camera and to its closest competition. The new Z is competing on both sides of its position (FF and MF) for better or worse. As an A7R owner I appreciate what they are saying---and in fact am very pleased! I'll be getting my Z this week, their comments don't dissuade me. That's because you always, always pay the most for the last bits of goodness, in just about everything---cameras, lenses, tripods, cars, food, clothes, & etc, etc. I recognize and that and have accepted the value proposition---which I don't think is a bad one for the work I do now and hope to branch into. I am willing to pay the penalty. But I'd add that in a lot of ways this new camera, and the A7R, have solved some important technical issues for me in something of a definitive way. Because of that, they may wind up being cheaper than other options. I already have almost all the lenses I need for the Z, and the same for the A7R. I am now able to shed gear that is no longer needed, noe that I have 2 of the best cameras available. YMMV. My thoughts as well. They heaped high praise on the Z for the parts that they evaluated in depth, yawned a little in terms of the value proposition, gave credit for the price point in relation to the MF competition, and pointed out the puzzling aspects of the user controls (also shared with the K-3 ). It was a shame that they chose to not investigate the video a little deeper, but video is not their focus, and they had the camera for a limited time. Over all I think that the LL evaluation is a strong thumbs up for the Z for people for whom medium format digital is a good solution. Steve

07-06-2014, 03:39 PM	#10
CDW Site Supporter Join Date: May 2011 Location: Big Island, Hawaii & Utah Posts: 457	I thought the LL review was quite positive. The language used seemed quite similar to any number of reviews of theirs that I've read in the past. I was actually more surprised by the negative comments about the shutter shake of the 645D. I've never had that issue with my 645D. I tend to think it may be more myth than reality, much like the mirror shake issue of the film era Pentax 645s, that was proven over and over in various reviews to be non-existent, including an LL review, but believed otherwise by many. The Z noise performance is stunning. For those of us who shoot night sky and nightscape photography, it's finally a dream come true.

07-06-2014, 05:42 PM	#11
robertchow999 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 117	Originally posted by hsteeves I am going to have to sell my 645Z and get an A7R and order a D810. I am so depressed. Oh well, time for morning beer. I'll buy your 'z' for $4K since it is not so special as verified by LL. Actually, I am more interested in the rubber eye cup which I always lose when I take out the big 'D' for a labor intensive day of shooting. Think of it as getting $4K for the rubber eye cup and you'll find it so much easier to part with the 'z', which I would consider a nice kick in. Honestly, if you are satisfied with your new 'z', why be influenced by what any reviewer think?

07-06-2014, 06:25 PM	#12
hsteeves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 256	sorry, the Z did not come with the rubber eye cup - just some round plastic screw on thing which came off 2 hours after I took it out of the box. Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass what LL thinks about the camera.

07-06-2014, 07:46 PM	#13
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Painter It seems to me that the writers injected too much of their personal biases. Over all they seem to be looking to make a negative comment on many points. That's their style with almost everything but Leica and Sony. It is their pattern to use a good feature on another product (say the 645Z's auto mirror-lock up with a self-timer) to send messages to their darling companies ("why don't you do it like that?"), rather than actually crediting the other product. Unless you are Leica and pay Michael Reichman trips around the world to make him feel important, you'll have a very hard time to get him exited about anything. Sorry, if that is too sarcastic, but I'm annoyed by the opinionated pieces LL is calling reviews. Originally posted by Painter Perhaps some more time with the camera would help but either way it's the results that count. LL did not take its time with the Pentax K-7 either, concluding that it is a mediocre camera that does nothing particularly well. A very superficial verdict that did injustice to a camera that clearly was the best choice for some at its time. Originally posted by EssJayEff The only quibble I had was their comparison of the way you might work with the camera vis-a-vis the Hasselblad: the latter makes you slow down ("The fact it's hard to use makes me a better user") while the Pentax, being easier to handle might lead one's work to suffer. ("I'd prefer the 645z's usability and durability for sure. But in work-style, I like what the Hassy makes me do. If I need or want speed and convenience, I use a smaller system.") I just can't buy that argument. Just imagine . . . the 645Z would let you do BOTH! No, no, that's unimaginable! You just cannot work slowly with a Pentax 645Z! Your shots will always be blurred due to you rushing around with it. This site has become "Ludicrous Landscapes", AFAIC.

07-06-2014, 10:25 PM	#14
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	I though they gave the 645Z a lukewarm reception, they praised the physicality of the control layout in comparison to Hasselblad ( which is something that has annoyed me about their cameras for years) Their comparisons in terms of lens performance were somewhat skewed by their use of the 120mm f/4 Macro which is superbly sharp, isn't the best lens for general landscape work (they should have tried the 90mm f/2.8 OS).

07-07-2014, 02:41 AM	#15
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	Originally posted by hsteeves sorry, the Z did not come with the rubber eye cup - just some round plastic screw on thing which came off 2 hours after I took it out of the box. Honestly, I don't give a rat's ass what LL thinks about the camera. Contact your dealer - it does come with the rubber eye cup - the same that came with the D. yours must be missing