LL 645Z First Impressions Review

Class A · 07-09-2014, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by TCSJordan

I'm in the process of working on my 645Z review, (a video review that looks like it will clock in at over 20 minutes), and the video functions and image quality will get a very thorough analysis. Medium format video has an interesting aesthetic, that's for sure.

Cool, looking forward to watching your review.

You guys are really good.

jeromexs · 07-09-2014, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by DDoram

Luminous Landscape have their first impressions up; generally quite positive but quite muted praise. If it was a Sony they might have raved about it.

Pentax 645Z First Impressions Review

Dale

I received the 645z… The best camera I ever owned. It is snappy, great beautiful - sharp files. It is better than the PhaseOne 250 that I tried a couple of myth ago. For me dream of a tool. I also have the A7r for the family… Nowhere as good for commercial applications. Here are a few raw files I captured yesterday and today… nothing fancy, but enough for you to play with:

http://we.tl/XygEaZ1Vka

This is a link that will only work for the next 7 days…

Cheers!

**EssJayEff** · 07-18-2014, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by EssJayEff

With the exception of the terrible video problem, I read it as a very positive review. Their big concern was where the 645Z resides within the current marketplace in relation to FF 35mm camera and their price points. The only quibble I had was their comparison of the way you might work with the camera vis-a-vis the Hasselblad: the latter makes you slow down ("The fact it's hard to use makes me a better user") while the Pentax, being easier to handle might lead one's work to suffer. ("I'd prefer the 645z's usability and durability for sure. But in work-style, I like what the Hassy makes me do. If I need or want speed and convenience, I use a smaller system.") I just can't buy that argument. Just imagine . . . the 645Z would let you do BOTH!

Here's a link to Joel Grimes's favorable impression of the 645Z . . . slowing down . . . Hasselblad . . .
Pentax 645Z

Royce Howland · 07-18-2014, 08:37 AM

I agree. If a photographer wants to slow down when making photographs, then slow down. (Like Joel Grimes said, try shooting everything on a tripod. That will slow things down!) If the goal instead is to play fast & loose, then do that. Don't use ease of use or features on a camera or any other tool as a reason for not working a certain way. I never used most of the features on the 645D, and now that the 645Z has even more features I'll probably use an even smaller % of what the camera can do. But I'll still take the benefits of the Z relevant to me and use them the way(s) I prefer to work.

I have shot the 645D in situations where more support for a fluid shooting style would have been helpful, like street work. It was a chore, and definitely wasn't playing to the strengths of the D. The Z is much better at that now. Some will say, why bother using a big medium format type system for that type of work? Why not shoot another system more dedicated to it? Lots of reasons. I like the aesthetic of the images that come out of my 645 system, I'm trying to streamline my digital workflow around getting images to look the way I want them, I'm trying to cut down my Gear Acquisition Syndrome (I keep looking at the Fuji X cameras, and keep finding a reason not to buy them

), and I don't want to travel with multiple systems if I can do with one, especially when that one is large & heavy as it is.

Still, a whole other area of my work is locked down, manual everything, tripod, slow & methodical. The Z will plug into that approach perfectly. There's not one reason to change anything about the way I do that work. Basically I see it as now getting a lot more range of shootability with the Z, in situations where conditions are more divergent. That's a good thing, and I'll definitely take it.

monty · 07-19-2014, 11:48 AM

I have my Z for 2 days only, but I have tested it before like lots of others did and I must say, this is a revolutionary machine! A sensation in medium format.
Watching the german press for the last 8 weeks I would like to suggest Ricoh to place more adverts ... it is very clear who the press / media loves ... Nothing new, but I still find this very embarrassing.
Anyway, whats the point in comparing a thing with the size of a cigarette pack with something like a medium format camera? We all know that size matters

ogl · 07-19-2014, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by DDoram

Luminous Landscape have their first impressions up; generally quite positive but quite muted praise. If it was a Sony they might have raved about it.

Pentax 645Z First Impressions Review

Dale

Very good review from very good pro-site.

stevebrot · 07-21-2014, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Royce Howland

I have shot the 645D in situations where more support for a fluid shooting style would have been helpful, like street work.

Reminds me of PF user rense who uses his Pentax 6x7 for street photography. Strangely enough, it works and works well.

Steve

tuco · 07-21-2014, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

-LL

So then why so much fuss? Reviewers so often have a hard time admitting a Pentax product is great, that after the praise they feel compelled to complain about the smallest things.

The knife cuts both ways. Pentax users seem so attention starved that they amp up any little feature they find with their product that is either not as good or doesn't exit in another brand. And they get so offended if the brand is not recognized by the photo industry to their liking. Then when a feature like AF and 3D tracking finally approaches what the competition has had for years they act like it has been that way for years.

mreichmann · 07-23-2014, 06:25 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Class A

That's their style with almost everything but Leica and Sony.

It is their pattern to use a good feature on another product (say the 645Z's auto mirror-lock up with a self-timer) to send messages to their darling companies ("why don't you do it like that?"), rather than actually crediting the other product.

Unless you are Leica and pay Michael Reichman trips around the world to make him feel important, you'll have a very hard time to get him exited about anything.
Sorry, if that is too sarcastic, but I'm annoyed by the opinionated pieces LL is calling reviews.

LL did not take its time with the Pentax K-7 either, concluding that it is a mediocre camera that does nothing particularly well. A very superficial verdict that did injustice to a camera that clearly was the best choice for some at its time.

No, no, that's unimaginable!

You just cannot work slowly with a Pentax 645Z! Your shots will always be blurred due to you rushing around with it.

This site has become "Ludicrous Landscapes", AFAIC.

OK, so now that they're shipping I just spent about $15,000 buying a 645Z and four lenses for my personal use. What does that tell you?

Oh, I see. You're right, I suppose. It must have been Leica that paid for it.

Sigh. Some people!

Michael

stevebrot · 07-23-2014, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by mreichmann

What does that tell you?

It tells me that you are either foolish or danged serious!

Welcome to the Pentax Forums!

Steve

raksland · 07-23-2014, 09:06 PM

Following LL for the past eight years and having read and watched almost everything that Michael has posted, I thought he gave a fair assessment of a camera that he only had for a short time. I also knew Michael has purchased a considerable amount of cameras from several different manufacturers with his own money and he occasionally sells his used camera equipment to purchase more. If you go back and look at his old video journals like LLVD01 all the way up to LLVD20, which I have, along with most of the tutorials, it is very interesting and will give you a chuckle while he touts the outstanding performance of 8 mp. Michael, you have taken me around the world with you and I am grateful for your sharing of knowledge and experience with me. I may never be able to afford a trip to Antarctica but I have been there with you, we even took Jeff Schewe along a couple of times. Unlike you, I am new to Pentax, I was looking for something better and got a little frustrated waiting for Canon to decide whether landscape photographers matter anymore. I am still waiting, and for now my Canon gear stays in the bag while I use my 645Z. Michael, thank you.

Richard

dgdb · 07-24-2014, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by jeromexs

I received the 645z… The best camera I ever owned. It is snappy, great beautiful - sharp files. It is better than the PhaseOne 250 that I tried a couple of myth ago. For me dream of a tool. I also have the A7r for the family… Nowhere as good for commercial applications. Here are a few raw files I captured yesterday and today… nothing fancy, but enough for you to play with:

http://we.tl/XygEaZ1Vka

This is a link that will only work for the next 7 days…

Cheers!

Why/how it is better than 250?

robertchow999 · 07-24-2014, 10:41 AM

My only quibble with the LL review is the unfairness of calling video capabilities a failure. The sample video clip was terrible but it was also disclosed that the settings on the video clip were inappropriate and not enough time was available to adequately review it. TCSTV performed a more comprehensive video review and their conclusion (or the conclusion of the video crew hired to test the z) is well supported.

I realize that LL needed to have the review ready for publication but given the reveal on the settings, the video portion could have been re-written the more fairly and perhaps a promise to follow up on the video.

texandrews · 07-24-2014, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by robertchow999

My only quibble with the LL review is the unfairness of calling video capabilities a failure. The sample video clip was terrible but it was also disclosed that the settings on the video clip were inappropriate and not enough time was available to adequately review it. TCSTV performed a more comprehensive video review and their conclusion (or the conclusion of the video crew hired to test the z) is well supported.

I realize that LL needed to have the review ready for publication but given the reveal on the settings, the video portion could have been re-written the more fairly and perhaps a promise to follow up on the video.

I didn't get the z for the video, but I did watch the TCS video review (not bad, could have been 3 part, with an extra part for stills...). I am curious to know if the video problems are simply software oriented, or if there is an inherent problem in the hardware. I was getting the impression(erroneously?) that it was looking like a codec problem, which as I understand it is mostly software oriented but possibly with a processor aspect. So, if truly a codec problem, how much of the problem could be ameliorated with a firmware upgrade? Probably the medium format forum isn't the best place to pose these questions, but here we are....

**monochrome** · 07-24-2014, 11:27 AM

Welcome mreichmann. Kind of you to join and offer your observation directly to the Forum members.

07-23-2014, 06:25 PM - 2 Likes	#39
mreichmann Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 5	Now What? Originally posted by Class A That's their style with almost everything but Leica and Sony. It is their pattern to use a good feature on another product (say the 645Z's auto mirror-lock up with a self-timer) to send messages to their darling companies ("why don't you do it like that?"), rather than actually crediting the other product. Unless you are Leica and pay Michael Reichman trips around the world to make him feel important, you'll have a very hard time to get him exited about anything. Sorry, if that is too sarcastic, but I'm annoyed by the opinionated pieces LL is calling reviews. LL did not take its time with the Pentax K-7 either, concluding that it is a mediocre camera that does nothing particularly well. A very superficial verdict that did injustice to a camera that clearly was the best choice for some at its time. No, no, that's unimaginable! You just cannot work slowly with a Pentax 645Z! Your shots will always be blurred due to you rushing around with it. This site has become "Ludicrous Landscapes", AFAIC. OK, so now that they're shipping I just spent about $15,000 buying a 645Z and four lenses for my personal use. What does that tell you? Oh, I see. You're right, I suppose. It must have been Leica that paid for it. Sigh. Some people! Michael

07-24-2014, 10:41 AM	#43
robertchow999 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 117	Video My only quibble with the LL review is the unfairness of calling video capabilities a failure. The sample video clip was terrible but it was also disclosed that the settings on the video clip were inappropriate and not enough time was available to adequately review it. TCSTV performed a more comprehensive video review and their conclusion (or the conclusion of the video crew hired to test the z) is well supported. I realize that LL needed to have the review ready for publication but given the reveal on the settings, the video portion could have been re-written the more fairly and perhaps a promise to follow up on the video.

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07-09-2014, 05:03 AM	#31
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by TCSJordan I'm in the process of working on my 645Z review, (a video review that looks like it will clock in at over 20 minutes), and the video functions and image quality will get a very thorough analysis. Medium format video has an interesting aesthetic, that's for sure. Cool, looking forward to watching your review. You guys are really good.

07-09-2014, 02:58 PM	#32
jeromexs New Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Ottawa and Toronto Posts: 13	Originally posted by DDoram Luminous Landscape have their first impressions up; generally quite positive but quite muted praise. If it was a Sony they might have raved about it. Pentax 645Z First Impressions Review Dale I received the 645z… The best camera I ever owned. It is snappy, great beautiful - sharp files. It is better than the PhaseOne 250 that I tried a couple of myth ago. For me dream of a tool. I also have the A7r for the family… Nowhere as good for commercial applications. Here are a few raw files I captured yesterday and today… nothing fancy, but enough for you to play with: http://we.tl/XygEaZ1Vka This is a link that will only work for the next 7 days… Cheers!

07-18-2014, 08:15 AM	#33
EssJayEff Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: near Saxapahaw, NC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 974	Originally posted by EssJayEff With the exception of the terrible video problem, I read it as a very positive review. Their big concern was where the 645Z resides within the current marketplace in relation to FF 35mm camera and their price points. The only quibble I had was their comparison of the way you might work with the camera vis-a-vis the Hasselblad: the latter makes you slow down ("The fact it's hard to use makes me a better user") while the Pentax, being easier to handle might lead one's work to suffer. ("I'd prefer the 645z's usability and durability for sure. But in work-style, I like what the Hassy makes me do. If I need or want speed and convenience, I use a smaller system.") I just can't buy that argument. Just imagine . . . the 645Z would let you do BOTH! Here's a link to Joel Grimes's favorable impression of the 645Z . . . slowing down . . . Hasselblad . . . Pentax 645Z

07-18-2014, 08:37 AM	#34
Royce Howland Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 275	I agree. If a photographer wants to slow down when making photographs, then slow down. (Like Joel Grimes said, try shooting everything on a tripod. That will slow things down!) If the goal instead is to play fast & loose, then do that. Don't use ease of use or features on a camera or any other tool as a reason for not working a certain way. I never used most of the features on the 645D, and now that the 645Z has even more features I'll probably use an even smaller % of what the camera can do. But I'll still take the benefits of the Z relevant to me and use them the way(s) I prefer to work. I have shot the 645D in situations where more support for a fluid shooting style would have been helpful, like street work. It was a chore, and definitely wasn't playing to the strengths of the D. The Z is much better at that now. Some will say, why bother using a big medium format type system for that type of work? Why not shoot another system more dedicated to it? Lots of reasons. I like the aesthetic of the images that come out of my 645 system, I'm trying to streamline my digital workflow around getting images to look the way I want them, I'm trying to cut down my Gear Acquisition Syndrome (I keep looking at the Fuji X cameras, and keep finding a reason not to buy them ), and I don't want to travel with multiple systems if I can do with one, especially when that one is large & heavy as it is. Still, a whole other area of my work is locked down, manual everything, tripod, slow & methodical. The Z will plug into that approach perfectly. There's not one reason to change anything about the way I do that work. Basically I see it as now getting a lot more range of shootability with the Z, in situations where conditions are more divergent. That's a good thing, and I'll definitely take it.

07-19-2014, 11:48 AM	#35
monty New Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 22	I have my Z for 2 days only, but I have tested it before like lots of others did and I must say, this is a revolutionary machine! A sensation in medium format. Watching the german press for the last 8 weeks I would like to suggest Ricoh to place more adverts ... it is very clear who the press / media loves ... Nothing new, but I still find this very embarrassing. Anyway, whats the point in comparing a thing with the size of a cigarette pack with something like a medium format camera? We all know that size matters

07-19-2014, 10:49 PM	#36
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by DDoram Luminous Landscape have their first impressions up; generally quite positive but quite muted praise. If it was a Sony they might have raved about it. Pentax 645Z First Impressions Review Dale Very good review from very good pro-site.

07-21-2014, 12:19 PM	#37
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Royce Howland I have shot the 645D in situations where more support for a fluid shooting style would have been helpful, like street work. Reminds me of PF user rense who uses his Pentax 6x7 for street photography. Strangely enough, it works and works well. Steve

07-21-2014, 02:24 PM	#38
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,032	Originally posted by Na Horuk -LL So then why so much fuss? Reviewers so often have a hard time admitting a Pentax product is great, that after the praise they feel compelled to complain about the smallest things. The knife cuts both ways. Pentax users seem so attention starved that they amp up any little feature they find with their product that is either not as good or doesn't exit in another brand. And they get so offended if the brand is not recognized by the photo industry to their liking. Then when a feature like AF and 3D tracking finally approaches what the competition has had for years they act like it has been that way for years.

07-23-2014, 07:34 PM	#40
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by mreichmann What does that tell you? It tells me that you are either foolish or danged serious! Welcome to the Pentax Forums! Steve

07-23-2014, 09:06 PM	#41
raksland New Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Manteca, Ca. Posts: 6	Following LL for the past eight years and having read and watched almost everything that Michael has posted, I thought he gave a fair assessment of a camera that he only had for a short time. I also knew Michael has purchased a considerable amount of cameras from several different manufacturers with his own money and he occasionally sells his used camera equipment to purchase more. If you go back and look at his old video journals like LLVD01 all the way up to LLVD20, which I have, along with most of the tutorials, it is very interesting and will give you a chuckle while he touts the outstanding performance of 8 mp. Michael, you have taken me around the world with you and I am grateful for your sharing of knowledge and experience with me. I may never be able to afford a trip to Antarctica but I have been there with you, we even took Jeff Schewe along a couple of times. Unlike you, I am new to Pentax, I was looking for something better and got a little frustrated waiting for Canon to decide whether landscape photographers matter anymore. I am still waiting, and for now my Canon gear stays in the bag while I use my 645Z. Michael, thank you. Richard

07-24-2014, 12:46 AM	#42
dgdb Junior Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 42	Originally posted by jeromexs I received the 645z… The best camera I ever owned. It is snappy, great beautiful - sharp files. It is better than the PhaseOne 250 that I tried a couple of myth ago. For me dream of a tool. I also have the A7r for the family… Nowhere as good for commercial applications. Here are a few raw files I captured yesterday and today… nothing fancy, but enough for you to play with: http://we.tl/XygEaZ1Vka This is a link that will only work for the next 7 days… Cheers! Why/how it is better than 250?

07-24-2014, 10:53 AM	#44
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by robertchow999 My only quibble with the LL review is the unfairness of calling video capabilities a failure. The sample video clip was terrible but it was also disclosed that the settings on the video clip were inappropriate and not enough time was available to adequately review it. TCSTV performed a more comprehensive video review and their conclusion (or the conclusion of the video crew hired to test the z) is well supported. I realize that LL needed to have the review ready for publication but given the reveal on the settings, the video portion could have been re-written the more fairly and perhaps a promise to follow up on the video. I didn't get the z for the video, but I did watch the TCS video review (not bad, could have been 3 part, with an extra part for stills...). I am curious to know if the video problems are simply software oriented, or if there is an inherent problem in the hardware. I was getting the impression(erroneously?) that it was looking like a codec problem, which as I understand it is mostly software oriented but possibly with a processor aspect. So, if truly a codec problem, how much of the problem could be ameliorated with a firmware upgrade? Probably the medium format forum isn't the best place to pose these questions, but here we are....

07-24-2014, 11:27 AM	#45
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Welcome mreichmann. Kind of you to join and offer your observation directly to the Forum members.