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10-14-2014, 01:51 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by dougpeterson Quote
You are not wrong.

Phase One does not, and will not, support any other medium format products with it's Capture One software.

If you want a medium format solution which includes the robust, professional, fully features, fast and responsive tethering provided by Capture One, then I'd suggest a Team Phase One medium format system.
I guess you could have included small disclaimer here, not all members of this forum are members of LuLa's forum

10-14-2014, 11:35 AM   #17
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Yes, I guess I'm used to my signature being included. I work at Digital Transitions, the largest Phase One dealer in the country and am thereby clearly biased.
10-14-2014, 12:27 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by harumo Quote
Not to hijack the thread ...

Dan, why go to 645Z instead of upgrade your P40+ to an IQ1 or IQ2 backs ?
Seems more reasonable, no ??
The price of 645Z plus lenses (especially those of DFAs) are around the ballpark of IQ140 (with P40+ upgrade), I think ??

I'm just curios ...
To be honest Doug I don't like the way PhaseOne does business here in the UK, there's an obvious monopoly between the 3/4 dealers they all change extortionately for everything. I showed an interest in upgrading to an IQ2 a couple of months ago and was quoted £18,000 and 50% below the market rate for a trade-in on my P40+.

I've rented and used IQ1 and IQ2's for some of my high end jobs and they are fine backs, but Phase is seriously in need of a decent body, the 645DF+ is VERY weak compared to the 645Z for handling, especially outside of the studio.

Also I think your math is a little off, the 645Z with 3 prime lenses is half the price of a 50MP Phase, body, and similar lenses, but I'm happy to be corrected on this?

The only thing I'll miss about Phase is CaptureOne and the leaf-shutter lenses.

Dan
10-14-2014, 01:05 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by dan-uk Quote
To be honest Doug I don't like the way PhaseOne does business here in the UK, there's an obvious monopoly between the 3/4 dealers they all change extortionately for everything. I showed an interest in upgrading to an IQ2 a couple of months ago and was quoted £18,000 and 50% below the market rate for a trade-in on my P40+.

I've rented and used IQ1 and IQ2's for some of my high end jobs and they are fine backs, but Phase is seriously in need of a decent body, the 645DF+ is VERY weak compared to the 645Z for handling, especially outside of the studio.

Also I think your math is a little off, the 645Z with 3 prime lenses is half the price of a 50MP Phase, body, and similar lenses, but I'm happy to be corrected on this?

The only thing I'll miss about Phase is CaptureOne and the leaf-shutter lenses.

Dan
out of curiosity - which dealers have you spoken to? asking because i'm planning/want to sell my Leaf Aptus back and photographer I bought it from last year recommended PearTree shop in London (haven't spoken to them yet)

10-15-2014, 12:23 AM   #20
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I've never heard of PearTree hexx, but I'd be interested to know your experience with them.

You can find the main UK dealers here.
10-15-2014, 01:45 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by dan-uk Quote
I've never heard of PearTree hexx, but I'd be interested to know your experience with them.

You can find the main UK dealers here.
I'll come back to you on that one (hopefully next week), here's the link: Peartree Photo

So far I bought only small bits from them (focusing screen 48x36 for hassy v and other random bits - service has been brilliant)
10-19-2014, 05:50 PM   #22
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It used to support the 645z

According to this blog by Alex Muñoz, an earlier version of C1 supported the 645z.

capture one blocks 645z - already defeated - alex munozAlex Munoz Lifestyle/Fashion Photograpy
10-19-2014, 07:14 PM   #23
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As far as I know, C1 has never supported the Pentax digital 645's, neither the D nor the Z... and likely never will support them. Certainly the cameras have never appeared on the list of supported models published by Phase One, that I've ever seen.

Just because the C1 thumbnail browser can render some kind of a preview of the DNG files (maybe based on the embedded JPEG preview) doesn't mean the app supports the cameras. I've looked, and there are no Pentax 645D or 645Z ICC profiles within C1, which means colour reproduction is uncharacterized. Uncharacterized colour would be a deal breaker right there, for me. I doubt there's any lens calibration info, which means no specific lens corrections. Probably no ability to fully accurately render white balance either, which always has a level of camera vendor proprietariness to it. And the list may go on.

Just because a bucket of image data in a file format like DNG can be (sort of) previewed doesn't mean much... there's way more to properly supporting a camera's raw files these days. It sounds like Muñoz is saying C1 now actively blocks importing the 645Z files. Personally I think that's fine... "sort of" working with the files in a half-baked way would be the worst thing Phase One could have done. I would have liked to have Pentax support in C1, but if it's not going to happen then just go ahead and take it right out. Using the tool for anything less than the best results is something that I too would block, if I was calling the shots at Phase One...

10-20-2014, 04:52 AM   #24
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Leaving money on the ground

Not really a great strategy for any company. And that is what is going on now with Capture One. We already know that demand for the 645Z has exceeded expectations, and I think it will continue to be very popular. Not serving this growing community seems like a pretty daft idea, business -wise. I think simple business economics will push C-1 towards support.
10-20-2014, 05:36 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by dougpeterson Quote
You are not wrong.

Phase One does not, and will not, support any other medium format products with it's Capture One software.

If you want a medium format solution which includes the robust, professional, fully features, fast and responsive tethering provided by Capture One, then I'd suggest a Team Phase One medium format system.
If like me, you don't process your images in Capture One, you can tether in C1 (tested in V7) and capture one will show your DNG's. The colour profile is off, so it's not useable to process. But for viewing, it works great and fast. You need the Image Transmitter 2 software which features live view and camera functionality. This runs in the background, while your files goes into the designated folder you have selected. Personally I have switched to Lightroom after using Capture One Pro for over 3 years. When tethered, files take longer to preview as Lightroom auto imports them. I timed 8 seconds, but that is with USB2, my USB3 cable arrives today. This works perfectly well and is robust, professional, responsive. Tethered live view works great with IT2 Software. I miss a lot of Capture One's features for sure, but it's no deal breaker. My files get processed in Photoshop anyway, tethering is just a way to review my pics instantly.

I'm getting sick of people (possibly Capture One personnel), saying that if you want a robuster system, blah blah... Phase One could have released a cheaper back with this Sony sensor and created a new market for people like myself who cannot afford to spend 30,000€+ on a camera system. Instead they charge through the teeth for the IQ250 back and say it's because of the software features they add to this (sure). It will be interesting to see if Phase One will be around or even here in the next 10 years, if they stick with that kind of attitude.

Is worth to spend the extra bucks to use Capture One, no way!
10-27-2014, 12:57 PM   #26
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Tehtering & Lightroom

QuoteOriginally posted by kdphoto Quote
Rented the 645Z seems great tried all the lenses everything works fine but not tether to Lightroom or anything else I tried!! Am I missing something or is this not a very important part for professional workflow? Pentax wheres' the tether with USB, wifi cards are to slow!
Just got this feedback on Facebook.

I hope it's true.
Attached Images
 
10-28-2014, 09:09 AM   #27
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Wanting to buy into Pentax 645 and Pentax brand in the near future this is not good news. Though it's not a deal breaker either. It will just make me think a little deeper whether to go with medium format or dive back into 35 FF.

Just not a big fan of LR UI. Used Aperture for the longest time until I realize it was going to be die a slow and painful death as apple has done with most of their software. Have used C1 on and off since v2/3 it was always clunky. LR workflow at the time was less painful than C1's when doing a large volume of images. Tethering most camera brands has been an issue with most third party software maker from my experience. Most camera maker software was less than user friendly for the most part. Tethering would cut back on chimping when shooting on location or in a studio environment which is a time saver for post production.

So I ventured over to Phase One's forum and did some searching. They are very clear about not supporting competing medium format cameras in their software. Which is disappointing yet very understandable. They did share a workaround using Adobe DNG converter (free download and a few extra steps in your workflow) and C1. Some one also pointed out that native Pentax DNG's did work in C1v8 unless they changed EXIF info or something along theses lines. One can understand why Pentax owners not very happy. They did point out besides the brands under their umbrella they did support 200+ other cameras models. In their eyes they are not leaving money on the table world wide.

Tethering would be nice to have for the projects I have in mind working with medium format camera or FF 35mm. I can live with out it if necessary. My work around would be the workflow I'm using now- shoot, done download, (cards 4 card at once using photo mechanic), edit, CC in C1, LR or Aperture. It's understandable why studio shooters want to be able to tether with a client standing over your shoulder. They kinda of expect instant viewing these days when in a studio. Did my fare share of drop and pops. Having used tethering with a Dicomed scan back and Hasselblad with FW800 and I can not imagine tethering using USB 2/3 with 50+MB files. FW800 was painful enough with smaller files. Aperture did not support tethering Canon at the time I used the software if my memory serves me correctly yet it supported lecia and nikon.

Not being a 645z owner just yet can the 645z shoot raw plus jpg and just view a jpg via tethering?
10-28-2014, 12:26 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ru2far2c Quote
Not being a 645z owner just yet can the 645z shoot raw plus jpg and just view a jpg via tethering?
I'm pretty sure you can select Jpeg (while deselecting PEF & DNG RAW's ) from the Image Transmitter 2 software to land into a folder while your RAW's write to the camera's card. I'm using Capture 1 (V7) with Pentax's DNG's just for my work flow. Works really fast but the colour profile is off. I wouldn't wait to buy this camera, the images/ details/ dynamic range/ natural colours etc are just astonishing.

Someone from Ricoh (EU) phoned me back today to see if I managed to get the software. After I told that I did, I asked about Lightroom tethering and if it would ever be available. He laughed and said this is the single most requested feature that 645Z users want. Everytime someone requests this he forwards the info to head office. Anyway he told me Ricoh have received the message loud and clear and get asked all the time. He couldn't promise anything, but said he is hopeful this will come.

So if you want LR tethering it's worth getting in contact with them and tell them what you think!

Last edited by Martelli; 10-28-2014 at 12:43 PM.
10-29-2014, 05:41 AM   #29
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I was told by Adobe there is no SKD, so unless Pentax write the plugin, there is zero chances Adobe will

---------- Post added 10-29-14 at 05:44 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ru2far2c Quote
Wanting to buy into Pentax 645 and Pentax brand in the near future this is not good news. Though it's not a deal breaker either. It will just make me think a little deeper whether to go with medium format or dive back into 35 FF.

Just not a big fan of LR UI. Used Aperture for the longest time until I realize it was going to be die a slow and painful death as apple has done with most of their software. Have used C1 on and off since v2/3 it was always clunky. LR workflow at the time was less painful than C1's when doing a large volume of images. Tethering most camera brands has been an issue with most third party software maker from my experience. Most camera maker software was less than user friendly for the most part. Tethering would cut back on chimping when shooting on location or in a studio environment which is a time saver for post production.

So I ventured over to Phase One's forum and did some searching. They are very clear about not supporting competing medium format cameras in their software. Which is disappointing yet very understandable. They did share a workaround using Adobe DNG converter (free download and a few extra steps in your workflow) and C1. Some one also pointed out that native Pentax DNG's did work in C1v8 unless they changed EXIF info or something along theses lines. One can understand why Pentax owners not very happy. They did point out besides the brands under their umbrella they did support 200+ other cameras models. In their eyes they are not leaving money on the table world wide.

Tethering would be nice to have for the projects I have in mind working with medium format camera or FF 35mm. I can live with out it if necessary. My work around would be the workflow I'm using now- shoot, done download, (cards 4 card at once using photo mechanic), edit, CC in C1, LR or Aperture. It's understandable why studio shooters want to be able to tether with a client standing over your shoulder. They kinda of expect instant viewing these days when in a studio. Did my fare share of drop and pops. Having used tethering with a Dicomed scan back and Hasselblad with FW800 and I can not imagine tethering using USB 2/3 with 50+MB files. FW800 was painful enough with smaller files. Aperture did not support tethering Canon at the time I used the software if my memory serves me correctly yet it supported lecia and nikon.

Not being a 645z owner just yet can the 645z shoot raw plus jpg and just view a jpg via tethering?
With the software you can select what goes to the memory card and what gets copied to the HDD. Anyway if you use a USB 3 and you have a fast SSD, time from clicking to show up on LR library using the folder auto import is about 5 seconds.
11-21-2014, 02:02 PM - 2 Likes   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by dan-uk Quote
Is there any news on tethering support?

I'm deeply interested in the 645Z, it's looks awesome, but the lack of tethering support is a real show stopper for me. I currently shoot fashion and beauty in my studio using a PhaseOne P40+ via a firewire tether, I can't imagine life without that functionality.
Hi Dan,
I shoot fashion as well. In the studio & tethered.
Owning the 645z now of course C1 & Capture Pilot have gotten obsolete.
I only used C1 when I shot with a rented Phase One back and I always hated the not very userfriendly handling.

Everything I shoot with 35mm SLR I process in Lightroom, which is much more userfriendly except for the slow
rendering and lack of a loupe to quickly check focus.

I have gotten pretty good at it and for my purposes I don't miss anything.

Here's how I work now:

For tethered shooting with the Pentax 645z I use Lightroom in combination with ImageTransmitter2.
I works much better than expected.

All you need to to is to tell ImageTransmitter2 where to store the images coming from the camera on your PC.
In Lightroom you'd have to enable AutoImport. Just define the folder from ImageTransmitter2 as watched folder
and tell Lightroom where to copy the images to. Then you are all set.

It's almost as fast as shooting tethered with Capture One.

So far I haven't managed to transfer RAW & JPGs. RAW only works fine.
I was thinking of using the JPGs at first to get faster previews and I wanted to test
the JPGs in C1 on the side so I my clients still could use Capture Pilot but since I couldn't transfer
RAWS with JPGs on the side this is not an option.

One more thing:
Pentax commented on a comment of mine on FaceBook asking for a tether-plugin for Lightroom.
They said that they are working on it. Reading Lightroom rumours it is expected that the next LR
version will get a performance boost. If this is true all will be good - with a tethering plugin

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Dan
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