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08-04-2014, 04:06 PM   #31
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I agree. DPreview mentiones a $5K price: Ricoh adds HD Pentax-DA645 28-45mm F4.5ED AW SR to medium format lens lineup: Digital Photography Review. $3K better than I was afraid of. Not bad. Still a high price, but it's likely a very good lens and medium format. It'll be heavy, but most medium format zooms are heavy. Better high quality than light weight, IMHO.

08-04-2014, 04:10 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lacunapratum Quote
I agree. DPreview mentiones a $5K price: Ricoh adds HD Pentax-DA645 28-45mm F4.5ED AW SR to medium format lens lineup: Digital Photography Review. $3K better than I was afraid of. Not bad. Still a high price, but it's likely a very good lens and medium format. It'll be heavy, but most medium format zooms are heavy. Better high quality than light weight, IMHO.
That will mean with normal prices it will be £5k in the UK - equivalent to about $9k. Hope it's out in time for when I am in Tokyo in October.
08-04-2014, 04:15 PM   #33
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A very reasonable price and available this month - kudos to Pentax.
08-04-2014, 04:17 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lacunapratum Quote
I It'll be heavy, but most medium format zooms are heavy. .
Not until now. It weigths 50% more than the FA645 150-300. It has almost the same number glass elements and is a long telephoto lens.....
The 33-55 covers the whole 645 frame and weights only 500g.


Last edited by Pål Jensen; 08-04-2014 at 04:22 PM.
08-04-2014, 05:00 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Not until now. It weigths 50% more than the FA645 150-300. It has almost the same number glass elements and is a long telephoto lens.....
The 33-55 covers the whole 645 frame and weights only 500g.
I wonder how much the SR adds in weight? I notice the 90mm f/2.8 is twice the weight of the 150mm f2.8
08-04-2014, 05:13 PM   #36
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Don't know how much SR weights. What I do know is that Pentax haven't solved the wideangle issue created by a cropped sensor. What they have done comes at a high price in weigth and cost. With the "old" FF 645 system we had affordable wide wide angles in the 35mm and the 33-55. They were lightweights compared to the 25mm and the new zoom. I'd rather pay up to $8000 more for an FF 645 so that I didn't have to buy any of these overweight wide angles in order to go wide enough.

I think there is a good case for a compact FF (35mm) 36mp+ DSLR from Pentax. It will sit right in the middle between the K-3 and the 645z.

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 08-04-2014 at 05:31 PM.
08-04-2014, 06:37 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Don't know how much SR weights. What I do know is that Pentax haven't solved the wideangle issue created by a cropped sensor. What they have done comes at a high price in weigth and cost. With the "old" FF 645 system we had affordable wide wide angles in the 35mm and the 33-55. They were lightweights compared to the 25mm and the new zoom. I'd rather pay up to $8000 more for an FF 645 so that I didn't have to buy any of these overweight wide angles in order to go wide enough.

I think there is a good case for a compact FF (35mm) 36mp+ DSLR from Pentax. It will sit right in the middle between the K-3 and the 645z.
.
I share your concern over the weight; that is one of the major reasons I don't have a 25mm. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony uses this sensor in a body with a fixed lens, but I doubt it will be this wide. It is interesting that smaller sensors (vs. film) are requiring heavier lenses.
08-04-2014, 06:42 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Don't know how much SR weights. What I do know is that Pentax haven't solved the wideangle issue created by a cropped sensor. What they have done comes at a high price in weigth and cost. With the "old" FF 645 system we had affordable wide wide angles in the 35mm and the 33-55. They were lightweights compared to the 25mm and the new zoom. I'd rather pay up to $8000 more for an FF 645 so that I didn't have to buy any of these overweight wide angles in order to go wide enough.

I think there is a good case for a compact FF (35mm) 36mp+ DSLR from Pentax. It will sit right in the middle between the K-3 and the 645z.
In the near future I think you're more likely to find a new volcano form in Antartica than Pentax come out with a FF 35mm. One of the things that goes into that equation is how much would that steal market from the 645 system. Would that kill their market, a market they compete in very well right now? How well will the compete with Nikon and Canon in that market; will they have something just as good or better at the same price or lower? Or will it end up being not quite as good as the well refined bodies and large lens system of the competitors at the same or slightly higher price only pleasing the few Pentax enthusiasts that request it and would pay for it? They have an excellent stance against competition in the 645 system now and would think hard before they jeopardise it.

On the other hand I think this lens is excellent. Been waiting a long time for it. Much needed and at a very reasonable price for a wide zoom lens with SR for medium format. The 645 system never was a system set up to compete with 35mm format for size or weight. Anybody buying knows that and is buying for other reasons.

08-04-2014, 07:10 PM   #39
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Im wondering how many of those that have the 25mm prime will be getting this zoom? Im sure it will be a great lens if they can keep the aberrations down.
08-04-2014, 10:54 PM   #40
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I am also intrigued by the filter situation. It has a filter thread and no filter drawer, so presumably they envisage it being used with front-mounted filters. i wonder how many filters, with a Lee Holder, can be used without vignetting happening at the wide end...
08-05-2014, 03:42 AM   #41
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after reading all your post and doing my own experiments, here is my easy way out. it's too simple and would not generate enough money foe |Pentax to take seriously. make a 0.05 and a 0.30 screw on lens that has excellent optical quality, and will fit the 45mm and the 45-85mm. the cost would be way way less than the 25mm and the 28-45mm you guys are talking about.
08-05-2014, 04:41 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thomas Quote
.
I share your concern over the weight; that is one of the major reasons I don't have a 25mm. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony uses this sensor in a body with a fixed lens, but I doubt it will be this wide. It is interesting that smaller sensors (vs. film) are requiring heavier lenses.
It is odd. The cropped 645 sits between FF and the full 645 format. Lenses for the latter, the 33-55 is compact and light. Even 16-35mm lenses and 24-70/2.8 for FF (35mm) is half the weight of the 28-45.
I suspect Pentax is now targeting primarily the traditional MF market; fashion and studio work. It is more money here than in the "field", landscape and hobbyist segments.

---------- Post added 08-05-14 at 01:46 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by atlnq9 Quote
In the near future I think you're more likely to find a new volcano form in Antartica than Pentax come out with a FF 35mm. One of the things that goes into that equation is how much would that steal market from the 645 system. Would that kill their market, a market they compete in very well right now? How well will the compete with Nikon and Canon in that market; will they have something just as good or better at the same price or lower? Or will it end up being not quite as good as the well refined bodies and large lens system of the competitors at the same or slightly higher price only pleasing the few Pentax enthusiasts that request it and would pay for it? They have an excellent stance against competition in the 645 system now and would think hard before they jeopardise it..

You are probably right. I can't see that Pentax with its low marked share can afford FF due to cannibalization. A 36mp FF body will steal customers from the 645z and a 24mp FF body will steal customers from the 24mp K3 or vice versa.
However, I cannot see myself carrying close to 6kg of 645 equipment in the field (thats the weight for a "complete" focal lenght range, including the body). The camera is too expensive for roadside shooting only in my opinion. Guess I stick with APS......

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 08-05-2014 at 04:50 AM.
08-05-2014, 11:24 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
It is odd. The cropped 645 sits between FF and the full 645 format. Lenses for the latter, the 33-55 is compact and light. Even 16-35mm lenses and 24-70/2.8 for FF (35mm) is half the weight of the 28-45.
I suspect Pentax is now targeting primarily the traditional MF market; fashion and studio work. It is more money here than in the "field", landscape and hobbyist segments.

---------- Post added 08-05-14 at 01:46 PM ----------




You are probably right. I can't see that Pentax with its low marked share can afford FF due to cannibalization. A 36mp FF body will steal customers from the 645z and a 24mp FF body will steal customers from the 24mp K3 or vice versa.
However, I cannot see myself carrying close to 6kg of 645 equipment in the field (thats the weight for a "complete" focal lenght range, including the body). The camera is too expensive for roadside shooting only in my opinion. Guess I stick with APS......


I would have to disagree about lugging heavy equipment around. I've seen too many documenteries with people lugging a big trip[od and a heavy backpack into the field. as for roadside shooting there are a few of us who do it with the 645D. we have the money, and the yen for the camera. I am limited to using a scooter, but I wanted the best camera I could afford. in two weeks I will be going to a civil war re-enactment, I will either take a sony a-850 with a few big lenses, or my 645D with a 80-160mm and a 400mm plus a 2x tc. and a monopod. I will be shooting from a mobility scooter. if I could hike I would have a monopod and my camera and gear on a case with a handle and wheels.

Last edited by bull drinkwater; 08-05-2014 at 11:31 PM.
08-06-2014, 03:36 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by bull drinkwater Quote
I would have to disagree about lugging heavy equipment around. I've seen too many documenteries with people lugging a big trip[od and a heavy backpack into the field. as for roadside shooting there are a few of us who do it with the 645D. we have the money, and the yen for the camera. I am limited to using a scooter, but I wanted the best camera I could afford. in two weeks I will be going to a civil war re-enactment, I will either take a sony a-850 with a few big lenses, or my 645D with a 80-160mm and a 400mm plus a 2x tc. and a monopod. I will be shooting from a mobility scooter. if I could hike I would have a monopod and my camera and gear on a case with a handle and wheels.
You know, I find myself agreeing with you here. And I think it bears mentioning that this lens could potentially be the only one you'd have with you for certain shoots. So, that would be 6 lbs of gear, plus my lightweight tripod/monopod...less than ten pounds. Add a water bottle and it's really not much for a day hike, let alone just a hike of a couple of miles. Add the 45-85 and we're still less than 15 lbs I think. Add the 80-160---still very manageable. Not great with a shoulder bag walking around town, but hiking? I'd be using a backpack or convertible like my Kata 3n1-35PL. Sure beats some of the packs I've carried, like the 80lb Duluth food packs on some canoe trips. They'll put lead in your pencil! If weight is a big deal---and sometimes it is!---there is always the A7R. But I didn't get into Pentax MF for the weight savings....
08-06-2014, 09:43 AM   #45
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I agree. People ask how I can tolerate the weight of the 645 system. When I ask what they routinely haul around, especially those shooting Canikon 35mm systems, it's not unusual to find out their net weight is comparable to or even heavier than what I carry. I typically use a ThinkTank shoulder bag that isn't too large, and becomes uncomfortable on the shoulder if I over-stuff it. So I (mostly) don't do that. Folks who shoot out of camera packs often simply have a lot more gear stuffed in there.

In June, I was 3 weeks in Iceland with a pair of 645D's and a selection of 5 lenses. (Well, one of the 645D's had a shutter failure near the beginning of the trip, so it stayed in luggage.) I carried and used the kit almost every day; sometimes for long hours. This included a 12-day stretch where the shooting mostly went on for 12 - 18 hours a day outside of meal breaks (and rain breaks). Would I have liked to have a lighter rig? Sure. But I wanted to shoot and get the images from the 645, not something else that didn't have the same shooting experience or resulting image "look" and quality.

So I live with the weight and sometimes dial my lens selection down to a different subset in the bag, on given days. It's eminently doable. Oh, I'm no physical 1-percenter, either. I'm probably well past my midlife crisis point even before buying into the Pentax 645 system , and I'm not in the shape I could be (arguably, "should be"). Like others have said, I like and want to shoot the Pentax 645 system more than anything else I've used in digital since around 2002. Weight savings is not the reason I pick up the D or the Z.

Even the purchase price of the kit is something that I just need to work around. Most of my kit is older A and FA lenses, and I'm happy with them all. The DA 25mm was a unique optic with capability I needed and couldn't get in any other package, so I added it. I didn't particularly like the D-FA 55mm and the FA 45-85mm was optically more than good enough @ 55mm, so I passed on the D-FA 55mm. It wasn't mainly a price issue, the lens just didn't do anything for me, even if it had been $50.

I do like the D-FA 90mm a lot but can't justify it right now so I'm holding off. The new DA 28-45mm is also pretty unique, and if it's good enough it might eliminate the need for my A and FA 35mm lenses. (Not the 25mm, though I may not need to carry the 25mm as often as before.) Either way, the new zoom is very attractive for my type of work so I may have to plan it into the mix... in which case I'll just deal with the weight and cost and go on being happy to shoot the system and get the results it gives me.
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