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08-16-2014, 11:13 AM   #1
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645Z on Creativelive with Joel Grimes

I was watching Creativelive tutorial about commercial photography and guess what camera was used?
Pentax 645z)) It was really nice to see Pentax thethered and used by pro.


Last edited by Dario79; 08-16-2014 at 11:22 AM.
08-16-2014, 12:24 PM   #2
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Here is the link to the Joel Grimes item. One thing to note, that I found interesting was...
QuoteQuote:
So, is it worth the price tag? Well, the first thing I aways tell people is donít purchase something you canít afford. Second, the Pentax 645Zís price point is around $8500. Back when I purchased my Canon 1Ds 11 mega pixels, I paid $8000. And believe me, at the time it was worth every penny I paid for it. I billed over a million dollars with that camera.

08-16-2014, 01:40 PM   #3
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Whoah, who does this Grimes guy think he is? We all know that a medium format system is unusable without leaf shutter lenses. Because ND filters don't exist for medium format. Therefore, you can't take pictures at wide apertures with high levels of light.

I don't know why he thinks he took photos using ND filters on a medium format camera with studio strobes. Because he couldn't have. And we all know the 645z is dead in the water as a system because there are no leaf shutter lenses.
08-16-2014, 01:46 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Because ND filters don't exist for medium format
as far as i know, ND filter are filter, hence they screw on lens (or are hold by adapter that srew in the filter - if the ND filter is square). Sooooo if the ND filter exist on the size of the filter thread of any MF lens, it will be good.

Or i miss something, but i don't think i do ...

Oh oh oh ! on the left side of the linked page :
QuoteQuote:
For the lens, I used the Pentax 90mm 2.8 with a 6 stop ND filter, shot at f/2.8 creating one inch of DOF.


08-16-2014, 03:27 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
as far as i know, ND filter are filter, hence they screw on lens (or are hold by adapter that srew in the filter - if the ND filter is square). Sooooo if the ND filter exist on the size of the filter thread of any MF lens, it will be good.

Or i miss something, but i don't think i do ...

Oh oh oh ! on the left side of the linked page :
I was being sarcastic. I have frequently seen the Pentax 645 digital system dismissed, due to its lack of leaf shutter lenses. As though photography is not possible without leaf shutter lenses.
08-16-2014, 03:32 PM   #6
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Leaf shutter lenses do have their place, especially in the studio. If you need to shoot staged action shots at 1/1000 or 1/1600 to freeze a model mid air, then no ND filter will ever help.

It's all about finding what works. I shoot landscapes so my 645z is just right.

In my opinion, they have given the 645zs to the wrong guys, they should have tested them with the landscape photogs.

Scott
08-16-2014, 03:50 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Leaf shutter lenses do have their place, especially in the studio. If you need to shoot staged action shots at 1/1000 or 1/1600 to freeze a model mid air, then no ND filter will ever help.

It's all about finding what works. I shoot landscapes so my 645z is just right.

In my opinion, they have given the 645zs to the wrong guys, they should have tested them with the landscape photogs.

Scott
I disagree. I believe most studio photographers who want to freeze action at short intervals would prefer to use a higher number of strobes, at lower power settings. The duration of a strobe is much shorter than 1/1000 of a second, especially at lower settings. This has been the way to do high-speed photography for a very, very long time.

I think leaf shutter lenses are most frequently used to control ambient light during flash photography. Which is what Grimes has demonstrated can be done using ND filters.
08-16-2014, 04:01 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I was being sarcastic. I have frequently seen the Pentax 645 digital system dismissed, due to its lack of leaf shutter lenses. As though photography is not possible without leaf shutter lenses.
Oh, sorry, i really didn't realize you were being sarcastic ... but i guess you realized it already !

08-16-2014, 05:02 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I disagree. I believe most studio photographers who want to freeze action at short intervals would prefer to use a higher number of strobes, at lower power settings. The duration of a strobe is much shorter than 1/1000 of a second, especially at lower settings. This has been the way to do high-speed photography for a very, very long time.

I think leaf shutter lenses are most frequently used to control ambient light during flash photography. Which is what Grimes has demonstrated can be done using ND filters.
I am not and will never be a studio or fashion photographer who needs flash for purposes like that, but I would assume that if you had a fast moving object in the frame, or somebody jumping mid air or waving their arms about, would 1/125 be enough to freeze the action? I would have assumed not. No amount of flash, fast or slow, can freeze movement. Thats what fast shutters are for, no?

Cheers, Scott
08-17-2014, 01:45 AM   #10
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2351HD you are wrong. I often use strobes to freeze the motion and when you are working with strobes shutters job is to manipulate ambient light. By setting duration of light on the strobe you determine how much of motion blure you want (or don't want). There are nomerous tutorials on web so look them up. There are some examples of action photography on my facebook fan page so if you want you can see some perfecly frozen action shots with shutter speed 1/60 and lower.)
I finished watching tutorial with 645z and they changed it with canon (5diii I think) because they had problem with 645z lafge files.
I guess it's time for Creativelive to invest in new hardware)
08-17-2014, 03:33 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dario79 Quote
2351HD you are wrong. I often use strobes to freeze the motion and when you are working with strobes shutters job is to manipulate ambient light. By setting duration of light on the strobe you determine how much of motion blure you want (or don't want). There are nomerous tutorials on web so look them up. There are some examples of action photography on my facebook fan page so if you want you can see some perfecly frozen action shots with shutter speed 1/60 and lower.)
I finished watching tutorial with 645z and they changed it with canon (5diii I think) because they had problem with 645z lafge files.
I guess it's time for Creativelive to invest in new hardware)
So why all the fuss over leaf shutter lenses then?

Leica, Hassy and Phase are using them as a selling point so there must be a benefit in the fast shutter.
08-17-2014, 03:36 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I believe most studio photographers who want to freeze action at short intervals would prefer to use a higher number of strobes, at lower power settings. The duration of a strobe is much shorter than 1/1000 of a second, especially at lower settings. This has been the way to do high-speed photography for a very, very long time.
Actually studio strobes are at their fastest at full power. As you turn down the power on a studio strobe, every stop you turn it down makes it about 15% slower. By the time you hit the lowest power, you've doubled the duration. Unless you are working with an IGBT Flash ( which basically work the same way compact flash units do). the drawback is that really good IGBT flash units are frigging expensive.

Here are some T.1 durations of common 400-600ws mains powered flash units:

  • 1/966 Bowens Gemini 500 Pro
  • 1/883 Profoto D1
  • 1/683 Elinchrom Style RX 600
  • 1/600 White Lightning X1600
  • 1/533 Paul Buff Einstein 640
  • 1/520 Elinchrom BX 500Ri
  • 1/266 Elinchrom D-Lite it 400

These are all at 1:1 power and the durations are still pretty slow. When I have worked in the studio with subjects that require fast motion to be stopped the first thing I do is turn up the power on my strobes. At really high speeds 1/2000th and above the differences between focal plane and leaf Shutter mechanisms is utterly pointless*. At synch speeds neither of them are anywhere near fast enough to stop motion on their own. If the subject needs to make any type of spin (leap and spin, gymnastic moves, martial arts). For that, you need to be about 1/3,000 sec t.5 to completely freeze motion. And if the action involves swinging anything (sword, baseball bat, golf club, tennis racket) you will need a minimum of 1/6,000 sec - surprisingly "whipping" wind blown hair or clothes can easily get up into that speed.


* Unless you are mixing in ambient light, which will give an advantage to leaf shutters - but even that is rather limiting.

Last edited by Digitalis; 08-17-2014 at 03:46 AM.
08-17-2014, 07:08 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dario79 Quote
2351HD you are wrong. I often use strobes to freeze the motion and when you are working with strobes shutters job is to manipulate ambient light. By setting duration of light on the strobe you determine how much of motion blure you want (or don't want). There are nomerous tutorials on web so look them up. There are some examples of action photography on my facebook fan page so if you want you can see some perfecly frozen action shots with shutter speed 1/60 and lower.)
I finished watching tutorial with 645z and they changed it with canon (5diii I think) because they had problem with 645z lafge files.
I guess it's time for Creativelive to invest in new hardware)
This is correct ... but there are other advantages to Leaf Shutter lenses that can sync to faster shutter speed as well (using in combo with those fast duration strobes)

I watched that tutorial too and was bumped when they switched with 5Dmk3. Otherwise, it'd be the first tutorial using 645Z. CreativeLive should do better logistic prep. on that ... oh well

Last edited by harumo; 08-17-2014 at 07:15 PM.
08-18-2014, 07:22 PM   #14
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Yes, of course there are advantages to leaf shutter lenses, and reasons for their existence. I just think it's funny that one of the main knocks against the 645D system is its lack of LF lenses. No other system faces this same scrutiny.
08-18-2014, 07:56 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Yes, of course there are advantages to leaf shutter lenses, and reasons for their existence. I just think it's funny that one of the main knocks against the 645D system is its lack of LF lenses. No other system faces this same scrutiny.
I think it's because people online would rather carry on with complaints rather than positives. It's just the way.

I do not know enough about flash work to offer an opinion but it seems like people with dslrs are doing fine without leaf shutters.
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