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08-31-2014, 10:34 AM   #16
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If you had purchased a new Nikon/Canon $5000 lens, do you think that you would have received better service - especially if you weren't a member of their professional services section? The only thing that might help is that because of sold product numbers, you would be more likely to get service in Canada. But the big guys ain't that fast either many times. Sell your Pentax and go buy a Phase or a 'Blad.

08-31-2014, 10:57 AM   #17
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I’m glad my post got so many well thought responses. I think it deserves more factual input from me. I was never told that there was no service available on this lens other than at Pentax Japan, never told about a $170.00 shipping fee. Never told that the Canadian service centre for Pentax has no trained staff for the 25mm lens (I was told they don’t have the tools or trained personnel). In fact, the service centre in Canada is referred to as Pentax, but is an independently owned business that sub contracts service and repairs for Pentax and many other brands.


At all material time I was lead to believe that I was dealing directly with Pentax, which sadly I learn was not the case. In my opinion the lens has a fundamental design defect with the AF. At the end of the day I am not satisfied that this lens can withstand normal field usage. Remember, I did report that the lens AF failed the first time without any apparent reason. I was honest enough to state that the second event was due to a drop. The lens was attached to the camera and was in a large soft canvas bag with my Canon 7D, also my Pentax 55mm was along for the shore trip in the Haida Gwaii. There were other Canon lenses with AF. I am seventy years old, have both hips replaced along with my left knee and my left leg is paralysed (foot drop). My left foot hooked on a coffer rail and my bag wrenched out of my hands and almost went overboard. When it hit the deck, I said to myself “Well there goes the 25mm for sure”. Sure enough it was the only lens damaged; even the 55mm was unscathed.


I believe Pentax should take a look at the AF drive on the 25mm as in MHO, it’s worse than useless.



---------- Post added 08-31-14 at 12:08 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Rant aside you have a single very important point: people who purchase $5,000 lenses and $8,000 cameras deserve service and support that match that price tag. You should have received a loaner, perhaps at a rental fee, and you should have been walked through the status of your repair from A to Z. It should have been expedited to Japan if needed and returned to you in weeks, not months.

Ricoh is capable of this level of service. If our copier breaks down it is fixed in 24 hours. Period. So they know how, it seems they just don't see the need. They understand a copier is mission critical to a working business. They need to understand a camera is mission critical to a working photographer.

If they want to sell Q's and low end DSLRs to hipsters fine, service can be lousy and they can get away with it. But if they want to stick their toe into the pro photographer market then the service needs to be pro level as well. This more than anything else (including FF) needs fixed before they can really attract high end photographers. 645z might be the best thing since they invented cameras but if too many horror stories like this start up no working photographer is going to be interested.

That said, the OP should have paid the $600 to get the lens fixed. That is not out of line, much.

---------- Post added 08-30-14 at 09:10 PM ----------




The OP did note that it received a "good thump".
Less than a year, shipping and repair is free except for a drop.
08-31-2014, 11:09 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by aeros Quote
I believe Pentax should take a look at the AF drive on the 25mm as in MHO, itís worse than useless.
SDM gained a bad reputation on the K-mount lenses,
although there are indications that it might have improved after 2012.

Nevertheless, Pentax now seem to have switched to so-called DC motors,
both for K-mount and for the new D-FA 645 90mm macro.
08-31-2014, 11:16 AM   #19
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What’s the point if it keeps going south, whether you drop it or not?


08-31-2014, 11:24 AM - 2 Likes   #20
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Sorry to hear about your problems.... my advice dealing with Pentax or any camera, is if you can't afford to replace it if it breaks when you need it, don't buy it. So, I won't be buying a $5000 lens. Making any advice I might offer pretty much meaningless.

I've had good service from Pentax in Canada, but they've changed from an in house repair service to an outsourced repair service. The people I know there have been laid off, and I'm just completely turned off by that happening. I'd been dealing with some of those people for 20 years, and knowledge of them and their facility was certainly something that influenced my purchasing decision. The horror stories I'm hearing from people now are not the service I expected when I bought Pentax. ANd the horror stories I'm hearing now sound nothing like the people I've talked to on the phone, visited, and emailed for years.

I'm guessing Pentax has no idea how this is going to affect my future purchasing decision. To them the Toronto Repair depot was an un-necssary expense. Well Pentax, the bottom line is this new Pentax/Canon repair center doesn't care if Pentax/RIcoh survives, has lots of business without servicing Pentax equipment and is probably right now training your old camera techs to service Canon equipment. IN other words, they just stole your lab techs you fools. As long as we keep hearing stories like this, I personally won't be buying any more Pentax gear.

I'll have to hear a couple stories about what a great experience a few people have had before I change my mind on this. Right now, everything is negative. They absolutely deserve to lose the segment of their market share, I represent.

Great service and repair techs was part of the package I bought. I find your assumption you can just take it away to save a few bucks, offensive, and a sign that the company is not the Pentax I've appreciated all these years. Their service was never all that fast, but they were courteous, answered the phone and emails immediately, and were reliable.

I did a similar rant about Apple product on a forum a while ago.. "Someone said "get over yourself". My response was, "I'd rather get over Apple". My next phone won't be an iPhone. Pentax, take note.

Last edited by normhead; 08-31-2014 at 11:31 AM.
08-31-2014, 11:30 AM   #21
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Ricoh B2B (copiers and MFP) is a completely different and totally unrelated business to Ricoh Imaging B2C. They just happen to ahve the same name on the door and are owned by the same corporate parent. That Ricoh B2B knows how to give service and has the assets in place will have no bearing whatsoever on the camera division.
08-31-2014, 11:38 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Maybe they should offer a "professional services" agreement with a monthly / annual fee to guarantee service and or loaner equipment. Someone who depended on near 100% up time would buy that, casual photographers might not to save the money.
Agreed that would do the trick, if you want professional service then you need to pay for some sort of support agreement.

Phil.
08-31-2014, 11:49 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Agreed that would do the trick, if you want professional service then you need to pay for some sort of support agreement.

Phil.
I'd go with the consumer protection tack. if you don't have parts and can't provide support for damaged equipment, you shouldn't be allowed to sell in any country. I'm not going to pay for professional services, but that doesn't mean a reliable repair service isn't part of the package I'm looking for. I won't buy a washing machine that can't be easily and reliably repaired, let alone an item like a camera.

NO functioning repair depot, no sale. Why would I buy any product, knowing if I have a problem, the company involved is only going to ad to my problems. I'll buy from such a company only for throw away items. And my Pentax gear are not throw away items, although they may have to be purchased as such in the future. How much are you willing to pay for an item that if inadvertantly dropped or is otherwise damaged, can't be repaired? My absolute limit for such items is probably about $150.

08-31-2014, 11:51 AM - 2 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Agreed that would do the trick, if you want professional service then you need to pay for some sort of support agreement.
I don't think that lack of "professional" support really describes the problem here. I think it's more a lack of even basic competent service.

I've never had to send in a Pentax lens or camera for service, but the stories I hear on the forum are horrendous. People waiting weeks and months for parts or service does not seem to be uncommon. Just the word "C.R.I.S." sends shivers down my spine.

I don't know how Canon, Nikon, Sony, and Olympus stack up, but I can tell you that Sigma does not have this problem. I have sent lenses to their USA headquarters in New York several times for calibration or repair, and they have always completed the work in a day or two, and then promptly sent the items back via FedEx with full tracking. And I was always able to pick up the phone and talk to somebody in the service department where my lens was, and if necessary I could speak to the technician doing the work (although there may be a language barrier in some cases). If Sigma, another Japanese camera/lens company (and presumably a smaller company), can do that, why can't Pentax?
08-31-2014, 11:54 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Agreed that would do the trick, if you want professional service then you need to pay for some sort of support agreement.

Phil.


I paid $10,500.00 for just the body and a further $1200.00 for the 55mm and a further 5k for the 25mm. This is not hobbyist pocket money. This is what I paid as a working commercial Photographer (I hate the term ďProĒ). I was the first shooter to buy the 645D in Edmonton. I was the first shooter to by the 25mm in the entire western hemisphere.


This took a huge leap of faith that clearly was betrayed.
08-31-2014, 11:59 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'd go with the consumer protection tack. if you don't have parts and can't provide support for damaged equipment, you shouldn't be allowed to sell in any country. I'm not going to pay for professional services, but that doesn't mean a reliable repair service isn't part of the package I'm looking for. I won't buy a washing machine that can't be easily and reliably repaired, let alone an item like a camera.

NO functioning repair depot, no sale. Why would I buy any product, knowing if I have a problem, the company involved is only going to ad to my problems. I'll buy from such a company only for throw away items. And my Pentax gear are not throw away items, although they may have to be purchased as such in the future. How much are you willing to pay for an item that if inadvertantly dropped or is otherwise damaged, can't be repaired? My absolute limit for such items is probably about $150.
Completely agree with this. If they cant fix it, I wont buy it. The loss of the repair depot is a huge deal to me. I love my Pentax gear, but in a few years when I look for a new body... We'll see.

To OP, sorry to hear the story. Crappy customer service is the worst.
08-31-2014, 12:31 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by calculator01 Quote
Completely agree with this. If they cant fix it, I wont buy it. The loss of the repair depot is a huge deal to me. I love my Pentax gear, but in a few years when I look for a new body... We'll see.

To OP, sorry to hear the story. Crappy customer service is the worst.



Thanks for your kind sentiments, you get it. Some posts here clearly miss the point, itís about service. I have no confidence that after repair, this lens will take the normal field use any lens of this quality (price) should be able to take. BTW I just did a recount and the 25mm has been gone now for five months.
08-31-2014, 12:40 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
my advice dealing with Pentax or any camera, is if you can't afford to replace it if it breaks when you need it, don't buy it.
That seems too extreme.

Instead, I'd say, if you can't afford to insure it against breakage (or resulting loss of income), don't buy it.

---------- Post added 08-31-14 at 02:45 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by aeros Quote
Whatís the point if it keeps going south, whether you drop it or not?
Do you have any evidence to suggest that there might be a serious problem with the new DC motors?

On this forum, I've only heard of one instance of failure of a DC motor (on a K-mount 18-135 lens).

---------- Post added 08-31-14 at 02:50 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by aeros Quote
I was the first shooter to by the 25mm in the entire western hemisphere.
There's often a risk to buying a newly introduced product,
made before the manufacturers have ironed out the bugs
and learned how to produce it reliably.

"Early adopter tax" sound familiar?
08-31-2014, 12:56 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
That seems too extreme.

Instead, I'd say, if you can't afford to insure it against breakage (or resulting loss of income), don't buy it.

---------- Post added 08-31-14 at 02:45 PM ----------



Do you have any evidence to suggest that there might be a serious problem with the new DC motors?

On this forum, I've only heard of one instance of failure of a DC motor (on a K-mount 18-135 lens).
I have accessed the Henry's in store warranty... and it's excellent. but, I wouldn't have insured my 21 ltd, bought second hand, but after a tripod blew over with it on the camera and it did a face plant, the old Pentax fixed it in about 3 weeks for $250, after waiting for parts to come from Japan. For me, this also seriously diminishes the value of all used Pentax equipment.

I'm, not willing to pay anything for a piece of equipment if it breaks 2 days after I buy it , it's a piece of garbage. I was talking to one of my Nikon using buddies, and he said, camera insurance policies run 10% of purchase price per year. So to insure my setup, worth approx. 8k would be 800 a year.... you don't think you actually save yourself money insuring these things? But maybe you're right. But for 800 a year, I can just keep buying new stuff all the time and still come out ahead.
08-31-2014, 01:13 PM - 2 Likes   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Quote
If Sigma, another Japanese camera/lens company (and presumably a smaller company), can do that, why can't Pentax?
Beginning in the late 90's and reaching it's ultimate ludicrous extreme under Hoya and Ned Bunnell, Pentax systematically disassembled its USA infrastructure - the entire thing, from Dealers through Reps all the way down to repair parts and service. The entire enterprise is a front. Everything is outsourced to contract companies who 'operate' as Ricoh Imaging but they're just service providers.

There's no there there.

Who knows whether Ricoh can ever rebuild a real distribution and service infrastructure in the USA (and it appears from recent posts Ricoh Imaging Canada is going the same direction).
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