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08-31-2014, 03:33 PM - 1 Like   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by aeros Quote
The issue for me is the quality of build. Can this lens take normal field use? I believe not, other owners of the 25mm say the same. I read one post in this forum referring to this lens as being delicate. It would be great to hear from more owners of this lens as to their personal experiences. This may be hard to getting information from other owners as I was told by the dealer, “This is a rare and exotic lens, not much support for such a lens” That’s the understatement of the century!
Given how in my personal experience with this lens and the horrific time it takes to go to Japan and back, and the cost of repairs, then it’s a no brainer to not fix the AF and just use it as a MF. It is costing $770.00 to ship and fix and seems one only has to look at it sideways and it’s then on its way back to Japan for an AF repair and a five month trip. As I stated in an earlier post, it is after all a studio/landscape lens and AF is not critical, in fact I prefer MF over AF for non fast action shots.
The compelling question is “Why should it take five months and still not have it in hand, repaired or not?”
I had my K-5 and DA 60-250 roll off a log once on day 3 of a 6 day trip... so I understand exactly what you're saying... if it hadn't survived without a hitch, it would no longer be in my bag. I don't care anything about what's expected of modern technology, I care about what might work for me. How can any landscape photographer, someone who travels distances with the camera getting knocked around in a padded bag even consider such a lens? Too bad people had to get burned to find out.

And no, I wouldn't expect the same from my $200 Sigma 70-300. Unlike others, to me paying extra means "better build quality" , and better build quality means "better able to withstand bumps and beyond normal use." I guess maybe the modern world is conditioned to equate "better" with more fashionable or something. If that's your world, I'm not part of it.

08-31-2014, 03:49 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by aeros Quote
And now it all slides into the abyss, and you can call me aeros, dude.
You reap what you sow. Your tone was never going to win friends.

Were you seriously expecting Pentax to fix a lens that you damaged free of charge?

That's what insurance is for. Many companies will charge for shipping even if it is a warranty repair. This wasn't. You fell and broke your lens. My camera and DFA 55 hit th floor thanks to a faulty sun sniper strap. I paid for the repair to the camera, having a senior contact at Pentax UK meant I didn't have to pay for shipping, but still had to wait 2/3 months for it. The 55 was killed by the impact. I put it down to experience. It's not Pentax's fault the camera and lens hit the hard floor of an airport. It wasn't my fault either. But I don't hold Pentax responsible for the breakage of an item that is after all made of glass. The 25 being pretty heavy means that it is always likely to be damaged by an impact as you describe it.

Yes, professional support could certainly be improved, but don't expect a company to pick up the pieces of your mishaps. That is what insurance is for.

No doubt you will also be to me as you have been to others. It matters not to me. Many forums have empty vessels that are only interested in being told how right they are.
08-31-2014, 03:57 PM - 2 Likes   #48
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@ Normhead....Thanks for your comments, you’re getting it. I need to reiterate, the camera and lens did get a severe jolt. The 645 lost some paint down to the metal. I was able to do a good cosmetic paint job on it. What’s worth noting is how well the 645 stood up to a collision with the tripod mount on my Canon 7D. I feel so lucky that it was not a lot worse.
Another point worth making and I stated this earlier, no other equipment was damaged even though the entire contents of the bag took the same shock load. My Pentax 55mm did not suffer the same fate as the 25. I would not have been surprised if there had been a lot more damage given the unholy crash with the deck. Point is, only the 25mm suffered. In my experience this lens only takes a light tap and it goes south with the AF. I should mention that I did have a lot of foam pads separating my cameras and lenses.
Addressing some comments by other posters, someone has to be first out of the gate, with the confidence built over fifty years of dealing with Pentax; I purchased the lens with no compunction, base on my faith in Pentax. I’m sorry for finding myself posting my concerns here, sorry also for all Pentax users who as a community now find themselves in a real dilemma when it comes to returning equipment for repair.


---------- Post added 08-31-14 at 17:15 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
You reap what you sow. Your tone was never going to win friends.

Were you seriously expecting Pentax to fix a lens that you damaged free of charge?

That's what insurance is for. Many companies will charge for shipping even if it is a warranty repair. This wasn't. You fell and broke your lens. My camera and DFA 55 hit th floor thanks to a faulty sun sniper strap. I paid for the repair to the camera, having a senior contact at Pentax UK meant I didn't have to pay for shipping, but still had to wait 2/3 months for it. The 55 was killed by the impact. I put it down to experience. It's not Pentax's fault the camera and lens hit the hard floor of an airport. It wasn't my fault either. But I don't hold Pentax responsible for the breakage of an item that is after all made of glass. The 25 being pretty heavy means that it is always likely to be damaged by an impact as you describe it.

Yes, professional support could certainly be improved, but don't expect a company to pick up the pieces of your mishaps. That is what insurance is for.

No doubt you will also be to me as you have been to others. It matters not to me. Many forums have empty vessels that are only interested in being told how right they are.

You seem to have an agenda and don’t come across as being able to read with even a modicum of comprehension. Please show me anywhere in my posts where I asked for a free repair. I am trying to make the point (and other 25mm owners will benefit) that from my own experience I have formed the opinion that this lens cannot withstand normal field use. Forget the trip and fall by this physically disabled senior, I blame no one for that, (except the surgeon who paralysed my leg) remember this lens failed before without being dropped or banged. Just slow down and read with a little more care and maybe, just maybe you will get it. If this was a problem with a major car manufacture, there would undoubtedly be a general recall.
Pentax was once a much better company, they have designed equipment that ranks as innovative genius, but now they are franticly trying to keep their heads above water by pushing down on the heads of their long term loyal customers.
08-31-2014, 04:26 PM - 2 Likes   #49
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Wow, this slid real negative, real quick.

I do not want to take sides or argue, but I just want to say that my interpretation of OP's post has been misinterpreted but rather is:

He does not expect anything for free and is pretty miffed at 5 months of wasted time (which is important at anyones life, but especially in them golden years). Poor communication? I'd be miffed too.

I would be mad about having my product gone for 5 months and a lack of communication regardless of price. No matter if I broke the lens or it was a warranty issue, I would expect it in that magic 4-6 week range, but really 3 weeks. I would expect competent communication when needed (such as needing to sent to Japan or the price quote before work). That really is not too much to ask.

As for what I think Pentax/Ricoh should do for OP, cover the cost of repair and a sincere apology admitting full responsibility and failure of the system. I know I would accept this and it would turn my attitude around. It is not about the money, I am sure, it is about admitting fault and being sincere about mistakes being made.

08-31-2014, 04:35 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by calculator01 Quote
Wow, this slid real negative, real quick.

I do not want to take sides or argue, but I just want to say that my interpretation of OP's post has been misinterpreted but rather is:

He does not expect anything for free and is pretty miffed at 5 months of wasted time (which is important at anyones life, but especially in them golden years). Poor communication? I'd be miffed too.

I would be mad about having my product gone for 5 months and a lack of communication regardless of price. No matter if I broke the lens or it was a warranty issue, I would expect it in that magic 4-6 week range, but really 3 weeks. I would expect competent communication when needed (such as needing to sent to Japan or the price quote before work). That really is not too much to ask.

As for what I think Pentax/Ricoh should do for OP, cover the cost of repair and a sincere apology admitting full responsibility and failure of the system. I know I would accept this and it would turn my attitude around. It is not about the money, I am sure, it is about admitting fault and being sincere about mistakes being made.



WOW! My faith is restored, by a forum member who takes the time to read and comprehend what I have posted.
08-31-2014, 06:31 PM - 1 Like   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by aeros Quote


WOW! My faith is restored, by a forum member who takes the time to read and comprehend what I have posted.
See that little "thumbs up" button below his post? You might wanna click it.
08-31-2014, 07:35 PM   #52
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Is the lens in question a D-FA or the FA version.
Is this AF problem found in both versions? Are they both "delicate?"
08-31-2014, 08:26 PM - 1 Like   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrankC Quote
Is the lens in question a D-FA or the FA version.
Is this AF problem found in both versions? Are they both "delicate?"
Both versions are SDM.

The DA version appeared in 2012, so its SDM may be better.

08-31-2014, 08:49 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by FrankC Quote
Is the lens in question a D-FA or the FA version.
Is this AF problem found in both versions? Are they both "delicate?"





Hi Frank, thanks for your question, I can only answer to the lens I own the D FA 645 AFR 25mm F4.0 Lens. I have no experience with the FA version. My version sure is delicate though. I hope there is someone on the forum who can answer their side of this question (the FA).

09-01-2014, 08:27 AM   #55
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Most of us know what was meant but just to clarify, there is no FA 25mm. It's either the D-FA (first version made principally for the Japanese market, it seems, and now discontinued) or the DA (made for the global market). The version I have is the DA, which is the only version that was officially available in Canada. The Ricoh Pentax Canada web site still lists the lens as D-FA in the text, but this is incorrect; the product shot they have clearly shows "DA" on the lens. The Ricoh Pentax USA site correctly calls it the DA in the text, and shows the same on the product shot.

I don't know if there's ever been any official distinction between the two versions of the lens, other than the optical difference that the D-FA covers full-frame 645 without vignetting. Perhaps the mechanicals were updated as well?

My DA 25mm has been fine. It has traveled thousands of km by air, and been driven thousands more. It has been to Iceland, the US southwest desert, the Caribbean, the Canadian Rockies, the Alberta badlands and I suppose a few other places. I've shot it in all weather & conditions from driving wind to -30C with windchill to +47C in baking sunlight to 100% humidity, with everything from dust to sand to silt to volcanic grit, and moisture from rain, ice & snow to sea spray to condensation. I do my best not to mistreat my gear, but I don't baby the kit, either. These are field working tools and I work them relatively hard. Other than blown shutters, so far so good for me in the field...
09-01-2014, 08:38 AM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Royce Howland Quote
I don't know if there's ever been any official distinction between the two versions of the lens
Perhaps the mechanicals were updated as well?
My DA 25mm has been fine.
Very good. Another data point suggesting that the 2012 version of the SDM is better.
09-01-2014, 09:26 AM - 1 Like   #57
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Aeros,

This is troubling - Pentax Canada not able to support a product sold by them. Perhaps it might be worthwhile into researching product support laws in Canada? In the USA there is the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which is federal and seems to cover products that cost t least $25 and come with a written warranty. This would apply to the SDM failure, which appears to be an issue with Pentax lenses. It might also be worthwhile to contact Service Alberta: to see what your options are.

I share some of your frustration with 645 lens repairs... Here in the US I am less than pleased with support with Pentax products. Specifically with some of the 645 items I have had serviced. Lenses sitting at Pentax USA's repair facility (when it was in Colorado) for more than a month, waiting for a part. Lenses sitting at CRIS in AZ also waiting for parts. It seems to stem from Pentax USA and their parts department in my experiences. They just don't stock the things I have needed for FA 645 lenses and need to order them from Japan. I think in one instance I grew so frustrated with the wait time, that I had the lens sent back to me, found an exploded diagram of the lens, ordered the part from a supplier in Japan and sent off the lens, new part to an independent repair facility (took place years ago, so forgot the frustrating details).
09-01-2014, 09:43 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Royce Howland Quote
Most of us know what was meant but just to clarify, there is no FA 25mm. It's either the D-FA (first version made principally for the Japanese market, it seems, and now discontinued) or the DA (made for the global market). The version I have is the DA, which is the only version that was officially available in Canada. The Ricoh Pentax Canada web site still lists the lens as D-FA in the text, but this is incorrect; the product shot they have clearly shows "DA" on the lens. The Ricoh Pentax USA site correctly calls it the DA in the text, and shows the same on the product shot.

I don't know if there's ever been any official distinction between the two versions of the lens, other than the optical difference that the D-FA covers full-frame 645 without vignetting. Perhaps the mechanicals were updated as well?

My DA 25mm has been fine. It has traveled thousands of km by air, and been driven thousands more. It has been to Iceland, the US southwest desert, the Caribbean, the Canadian Rockies, the Alberta badlands and I suppose a few other places. I've shot it in all weather & conditions from driving wind to -30C with windchill to +47C in baking sunlight to 100% humidity, with everything from dust to sand to silt to volcanic grit, and moisture from rain, ice & snow to sea spray to condensation. I do my best not to mistreat my gear, but I don't baby the kit, either. These are field working tools and I work them relatively hard. Other than blown shutters, so far so good for me in the field...



Maybe I got a Monday morning lens. Excuse me for relying on my own personal experience.
09-01-2014, 12:07 PM   #59
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Take it easy. I suspect 100% of responders actually empathize with your situation. None of us here are your enemy, but you seem to be going out of your way to take offense with a number of replies.

I don't need to excuse you for relying on your personal experience any more than you need to excuse me for mine. I'm not denying your experience at all. As you well know, I've also been through some less-than-stellar support situations with Pentax over the past 2 years, so I'm certainly not wearing the rose-coloured glasses about the company; and I've had big $ support horror situations with a couple of other vendors that were actually even worse. So I do actually fully relate to your situation. I'm simply citing my own experience to round out the context a bit more, and possibly shed light on some real-world differences between the D-FA and DA versions of the particular lens under discussion. Which you yourself asked for, one post above mine.

You've got your specific case to deal with and will make your own decisions how to go about it. But other people are following this thread now and in the future, and will be looking for additional input to make their own informed decisions. We each have perspective; none of those perspectives are necessarily right for everyone...
09-01-2014, 01:02 PM - 1 Like   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Royce Howland Quote
Take it easy. I suspect 100% of responders actually empathize with your situation. None of us here are your enemy, but you seem to be going out of your way to take offense with a number of replies.

I don't need to excuse you for relying on your personal experience any more than you need to excuse me for mine. I'm not denying your experience at all. As you well know, I've also been through some less-than-stellar support situations with Pentax over the past 2 years, so I'm certainly not wearing the rose-coloured glasses about the company; and I've had big $ support horror situations with a couple of other vendors that were actually even worse. So I do actually fully relate to your situation. I'm simply citing my own experience to round out the context a bit more, and possibly shed light on some real-world differences between the D-FA and DA versions of the particular lens under discussion. Which you yourself asked for, one post above mine.

You've got your specific case to deal with and will make your own decisions how to go about it. But other people are following this thread now and in the future, and will be looking for additional input to make their own informed decisions. We each have perspective; none of those perspectives are necessarily right for everyone...
It seems that the OP took it in stride that his $5000 lens broke. The whole point of his story was how bad Pentax's service was after the lens was broken. So you're kind of addressing the wrong issue.
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