Lost cause

revdocjim · 09-05-2014, 07:37 PM

I don't know about other countries but I think the U.S. is inherently a lot harder just because the population is so spread out over such a huge area. Here in Japan, especially in Tokyo but also in other locations there are just a lot more camera stores, they move a lot more product, carry much larger inventories and are only a phone call and one day delivery away from the manufacturer. Add to that the cultural and linguistic differences and things naturally seem to slow down a lot.

Edgar_in_Indy · 09-05-2014, 08:36 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by revdocjim

I don't know about other countries but I think the U.S. is inherently a lot harder just because the population is so spread out over such a huge area. Here in Japan, especially in Tokyo but also in other locations there are just a lot more camera stores, they move a lot more product, carry much larger inventories and are only a phone call and one day delivery away from the manufacturer. Add to that the cultural and linguistic differences and things naturally seem to slow down a lot.

There's probably some truth to what you say, but other Japanese companies are able to make it work. Sigma, for example. Maybe I could also point to Canon and Nikon, but Sigma is probably a more analogous comparison since it is also a relatively small player, with a wide array of specialty and uncommon lenses.

Sigma had no trouble repairing my Sigma 100-300mm f4, and replacing some parts, even though the lens had been out of production for several years, and was a relatively rare lens to begin with. They apparently already had the parts on hand here in the US since the turnaround time on the repair was only a couple days. I was impressed, and that experience is part of what compels me to go with Sigma for my lens needs.

aeros · 09-05-2014, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy

There's probably some truth to what you say, but other Japanese companies are able to make it work. Sigma, for example. Maybe I could also point to Canon and Nikon, but Sigma is probably a more analogous comparison since it is also a relatively small player, with a wide array of specialty and uncommon lenses.

Sigma had no trouble repairing my Sigma 100-300mm f4, and replacing some parts, even though the lens had been out of production for several years, and was a relatively rare lens to begin with. They apparently already had the parts on hand here in the US since the turnaround time on the repair was only a couple days. I was impressed, and that experience is part of what compels me to go with Sigma for my lens needs.

Edgar, it may be a dumb question, do you have Sigma lenses for your 645 system?

Edgar_in_Indy · 09-05-2014, 10:15 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by aeros

Edgar, it may be a dumb question, do you have Sigma lenses for your 645 system?

Point taken, but unfortunately Pentax's service woes do not seem to be restricted to the 645 system...not by a long shot. The 645 situation seems to be a symptom of a much larger problem. I suspect the poster who said that Pentax (or Hoya) intentionally dismantled their North American service network is probably correct.

But if Sigma did start offering 645 lenses, I would fully expect that their service for the 645 lenses would be as good as, if not better, than the service for their APS-C / 35mm lenses.

Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 09-05-2014 at 10:36 PM.

texandrews · 09-06-2014, 10:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy

There's probably some truth to what you say, but other Japanese companies are able to make it work. Sigma, for example.

Absolutely. Exemplary service in the U.S. and excellent warranties from Sigma. No, they don't make MF lenses, but the point is that it is definitely possible to have excellent backup service for products. Pentax definitely does not have it in the U.S., but that's not their only problem in the U.S., maybe not even their most important problem, and these problems are well known among Pentax people these days.

Ricoh has an opportunity to change things, and they should. It's my hope they will, partly because they do have support systems in place for their business printing products. IMO they should jump start the process with a new "pro" support package for the 645Z and D system that owners buy into with yearly dues. Not ideal for us, but I'd rather have that than nothing, and it might allow Ricoh to start things off quicker. My automobiles didn't come with complete insurance packages, I paid extra for better coverage---plus of course my regular collision insurance.

aeros · 09-06-2014, 11:13 AM

Edgar, I was not making a point. I actually have no idea if Sigma makes lenses for Pentax 645's. If I had to make a guess, I would say no, because the market would not justify it. I stopped being lazy and researched Sigma lenses, plenty for the K mounts, could find nothing for 645. If It was possible to replicate the 25mm I have with a Sigma, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I am anxious to get my lens back to see if it is still in the same condition that I shipped it. It would be nice to have the AF working but I will settle for manual focus and not worry about it going south again. The end of this issue for me should come within a week, then I will move on and hope to never have to buy or repair another camera ever again.

At age seventy, that's not an unreasonable expectation. I come from a privileged generation who expect more than we are getting in service today. My generation expected more and we got it. I'm afraid we used up more than our fair share of this planets resources, to the detriment of my grandchildren's generation. Times are changing and not for the better.

I want to thank you Edgar for the encouragement and support you gave me through this issue, and to the others who did the same, I appreciate it.

RonHendriks1966 · 09-06-2014, 11:45 AM - **1 Like**

Well the problem isn't not having service in Canada. It isn't a problem, since FedEx takes one week for the lens to go to Japan and back to Canada. A lens like this should have at least a 5 year warrenty on it's performance and reliabillity. It's expensive pro-gear so you should be able to trust it.

There is a lot of work to do for Ricoh.

Edgar_in_Indy · 09-06-2014, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well the problem isn't not having service in Canada. It isn't a problem, since FedEx takes one week for the lens to go to Japan and back to Canada.

Would customs be a problem for shipping the lens to Japan and back? Would someone have to pay a bunch of import fees for accepting shipment of a $5000 lens?

RonHendriks1966 · 09-06-2014, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy

Would customs be a problem for shipping the lens to Japan and back? Would someone have to pay a bunch of import fees for accepting shipment of a $5000 lens?

Oh no that is job for Ricoh and they don't have to pay for those taxes.

itshimitis · 09-06-2014, 02:56 PM

It's all down to the customs declaration done by the sender. If it is declared as a repair going forward and back there is no issue as far as customs is concerned

Edgar_in_Indy · 09-06-2014, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Oh no that is job for Ricoh and they don't have to pay for those taxes.

I don't understand how this works. If I want to send somebody a lens in another country, there is often the concern about fees. How would this be avoided for somebody taking shipment of a repaired lens from another country?

Originally posted by itshimitis

It's all down to the customs declaration done by the sender. If it is declared as a repair going forward and back there is no issue as far as customs is concerned

It's really that simple? So when people ask a seller to send something as a "gift" to help avoid excessive fees, the person would be more clever by asking the seller to send it as a "repaired" item?

But you said it needs to be declared as a repair "forward and back". So is there some paperwork attached to the shipment both ways? Kind of like buying a round-trip plane ticket???

itshimitis · 09-06-2014, 03:08 PM

I think this is something that is easiest when it is being sent by a repair centre like Johnsons in the UK who are Pentax's agents in the UK. The customs are accustomed (pun only partly intended) to regular shipments between retailers and repair centres or between repair agents and manufacturers. The fact it is going to Pentax and not a third party retailer marks it out.

aeros · 09-10-2014, 12:52 PM

Well it's back, got it today. FIVE MONTHS to ship it for an estimate and return without repairs. Pentax? NEVER AGAIN!

robertchow999 · 09-10-2014, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by aeros

Well it's back, got it today. FIVE MONTHS to ship it for an estimate and return without repairs. Pentax? NEVER AGAIN!

I thought you declined the repair because of the cost.

Edgar_in_Indy · 09-11-2014, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by robertchow999

I thought you declined the repair because of the cost.

He didn't say it was repaired.

09-06-2014, 11:13 AM	#111
aeros Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: EDMONTON Posts: 105 Original Poster	Edgar, I was not making a point. I actually have no idea if Sigma makes lenses for Pentax 645's. If I had to make a guess, I would say no, because the market would not justify it. I stopped being lazy and researched Sigma lenses, plenty for the K mounts, could find nothing for 645. If It was possible to replicate the 25mm I have with a Sigma, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I am anxious to get my lens back to see if it is still in the same condition that I shipped it. It would be nice to have the AF working but I will settle for manual focus and not worry about it going south again. The end of this issue for me should come within a week, then I will move on and hope to never have to buy or repair another camera ever again. At age seventy, that's not an unreasonable expectation. I come from a privileged generation who expect more than we are getting in service today. My generation expected more and we got it. I'm afraid we used up more than our fair share of this planets resources, to the detriment of my grandchildren's generation. Times are changing and not for the better. I want to thank you Edgar for the encouragement and support you gave me through this issue, and to the others who did the same, I appreciate it. Last edited by aeros; 09-06-2014 at 11:32 AM.

09-06-2014, 02:56 PM	#116
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Oh no that is job for Ricoh and they don't have to pay for those taxes. I don't understand how this works. If I want to send somebody a lens in another country, there is often the concern about fees. How would this be avoided for somebody taking shipment of a repaired lens from another country? Originally posted by itshimitis It's all down to the customs declaration done by the sender. If it is declared as a repair going forward and back there is no issue as far as customs is concerned It's really that simple? So when people ask a seller to send something as a "gift" to help avoid excessive fees, the person would be more clever by asking the seller to send it as a "repaired" item? But you said it needs to be declared as a repair "forward and back". So is there some paperwork attached to the shipment both ways? Kind of like buying a round-trip plane ticket??? Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 09-06-2014 at 03:03 PM.

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09-05-2014, 07:37 PM	#106
revdocjim Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Mt. Akagi, Gunma Prefecture Posts: 374	I don't know about other countries but I think the U.S. is inherently a lot harder just because the population is so spread out over such a huge area. Here in Japan, especially in Tokyo but also in other locations there are just a lot more camera stores, they move a lot more product, carry much larger inventories and are only a phone call and one day delivery away from the manufacturer. Add to that the cultural and linguistic differences and things naturally seem to slow down a lot.

09-05-2014, 08:36 PM - 1 Like	#107
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Originally posted by revdocjim I don't know about other countries but I think the U.S. is inherently a lot harder just because the population is so spread out over such a huge area. Here in Japan, especially in Tokyo but also in other locations there are just a lot more camera stores, they move a lot more product, carry much larger inventories and are only a phone call and one day delivery away from the manufacturer. Add to that the cultural and linguistic differences and things naturally seem to slow down a lot. There's probably some truth to what you say, but other Japanese companies are able to make it work. Sigma, for example. Maybe I could also point to Canon and Nikon, but Sigma is probably a more analogous comparison since it is also a relatively small player, with a wide array of specialty and uncommon lenses. Sigma had no trouble repairing my Sigma 100-300mm f4, and replacing some parts, even though the lens had been out of production for several years, and was a relatively rare lens to begin with. They apparently already had the parts on hand here in the US since the turnaround time on the repair was only a couple days. I was impressed, and that experience is part of what compels me to go with Sigma for my lens needs.

09-05-2014, 09:14 PM	#108
aeros Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: EDMONTON Posts: 105 Original Poster	Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy There's probably some truth to what you say, but other Japanese companies are able to make it work. Sigma, for example. Maybe I could also point to Canon and Nikon, but Sigma is probably a more analogous comparison since it is also a relatively small player, with a wide array of specialty and uncommon lenses. Sigma had no trouble repairing my Sigma 100-300mm f4, and replacing some parts, even though the lens had been out of production for several years, and was a relatively rare lens to begin with. They apparently already had the parts on hand here in the US since the turnaround time on the repair was only a couple days. I was impressed, and that experience is part of what compels me to go with Sigma for my lens needs. Edgar, it may be a dumb question, do you have Sigma lenses for your 645 system?

09-05-2014, 10:15 PM - 1 Like	#109
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Originally posted by aeros Edgar, it may be a dumb question, do you have Sigma lenses for your 645 system? Point taken, but unfortunately Pentax's service woes do not seem to be restricted to the 645 system...not by a long shot. The 645 situation seems to be a symptom of a much larger problem. I suspect the poster who said that Pentax (or Hoya) intentionally dismantled their North American service network is probably correct. But if Sigma did start offering 645 lenses, I would fully expect that their service for the 645 lenses would be as good as, if not better, than the service for their APS-C / 35mm lenses. Last edited by Edgar_in_Indy; 09-05-2014 at 10:36 PM.

09-06-2014, 10:51 AM - 1 Like	#110
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,394	Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy There's probably some truth to what you say, but other Japanese companies are able to make it work. Sigma, for example. Absolutely. Exemplary service in the U.S. and excellent warranties from Sigma. No, they don't make MF lenses, but the point is that it is definitely possible to have excellent backup service for products. Pentax definitely does not have it in the U.S., but that's not their only problem in the U.S., maybe not even their most important problem, and these problems are well known among Pentax people these days. Ricoh has an opportunity to change things, and they should. It's my hope they will, partly because they do have support systems in place for their business printing products. IMO they should jump start the process with a new "pro" support package for the 645Z and D system that owners buy into with yearly dues. Not ideal for us, but I'd rather have that than nothing, and it might allow Ricoh to start things off quicker. My automobiles didn't come with complete insurance packages, I paid extra for better coverage---plus of course my regular collision insurance.

09-06-2014, 11:45 AM - 1 Like	#112
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Well the problem isn't not having service in Canada. It isn't a problem, since FedEx takes one week for the lens to go to Japan and back to Canada. A lens like this should have at least a 5 year warrenty on it's performance and reliabillity. It's expensive pro-gear so you should be able to trust it. There is a lot of work to do for Ricoh.

09-06-2014, 12:43 PM	#113
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well the problem isn't not having service in Canada. It isn't a problem, since FedEx takes one week for the lens to go to Japan and back to Canada. Would customs be a problem for shipping the lens to Japan and back? Would someone have to pay a bunch of import fees for accepting shipment of a $5000 lens?

09-06-2014, 12:56 PM	#114
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Edgar_in_Indy Would customs be a problem for shipping the lens to Japan and back? Would someone have to pay a bunch of import fees for accepting shipment of a $5000 lens? Oh no that is job for Ricoh and they don't have to pay for those taxes.

09-06-2014, 02:56 PM	#115
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	It's all down to the customs declaration done by the sender. If it is declared as a repair going forward and back there is no issue as far as customs is concerned

09-06-2014, 03:08 PM	#117
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	I think this is something that is easiest when it is being sent by a repair centre like Johnsons in the UK who are Pentax's agents in the UK. The customs are accustomed (pun only partly intended) to regular shipments between retailers and repair centres or between repair agents and manufacturers. The fact it is going to Pentax and not a third party retailer marks it out.

09-10-2014, 12:52 PM	#118
aeros Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: EDMONTON Posts: 105 Original Poster	Well it's back, got it today. FIVE MONTHS to ship it for an estimate and return without repairs. Pentax? NEVER AGAIN!

09-10-2014, 10:38 PM	#119
robertchow999 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 117	Originally posted by aeros Well it's back, got it today. FIVE MONTHS to ship it for an estimate and return without repairs. Pentax? NEVER AGAIN! I thought you declined the repair because of the cost.

09-11-2014, 04:40 AM	#120
Edgar_in_Indy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Indiana, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,685	Originally posted by robertchow999 I thought you declined the repair because of the cost. He didn't say it was repaired.