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02-26-2015, 04:59 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
They might be by Compur
Compur is trying to get out of the shutter business - Seiko would be their best bet.

02-27-2015, 05:05 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Compur is trying to get out of the shutter business - Seiko would be their best bet.
No, I meant whose shutter was used in the old ones. Now I'm curious. Not quickly evident in my first Google search.
02-27-2015, 08:02 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
I meant whose shutter was used in the old ones
Either Sekio or Copal.
03-02-2015, 07:59 AM   #19
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the reality is that the demand for leaf shutter lenses is quite small compared to the demand for upgraded field lenses. Why put money into something that you might sell one of when you can you can put money into something you will sell 20 of. The 645Z is more for more for amateurs and outdoor people than studios and indeed, the Pentax 645 was always like that. If leaf shutters are a necessity to you, go to Phase or Blad. Call it good. Want a camera that you can use outside in the rain and is quick to operate, get a Z.

03-02-2015, 10:14 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by hsteeves Quote
the reality is that the demand for leaf shutter lenses is quite small compared to the demand for upgraded field lenses. Why put money into something that you might sell one of when you can you can put money into something you will sell 20 of. The 645Z is more for more for amateurs and outdoor people than studios and indeed, the Pentax 645 was always like that. If leaf shutters are a necessity to you, go to Phase or Blad. Call it good. Want a camera that you can use outside in the rain and is quick to operate, get a Z.
The Leica S fits into the same performance/use-case category as the 645D/Z, but not only does it feature leaf variants of the regular lenses, Leica claims that they sell better too. Phase, Leaf, Leica and Hasselblad are all quite expensive though, a good 2-3x the price just to use leaf shutters? If Pentax releases at least a couple of lenses with leaf shutters in popular focal lengths they'll have the MF industry by the balls.
03-02-2015, 05:27 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kolor-Pikker Quote
The Leica S fits into the same performance/use-case category as the 645D/Z
But it also carries it a price tag that places it out of reach for many, the Pentax 645Z still is the best choice for those looking to get into Medium format digital photography.
03-03-2015, 12:43 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
But it also carries it a price tag that places it out of reach for many, the Pentax 645Z still is the best choice for those looking to get into Medium format digital photography.
Yes, which is what I said in my second sentence, unless you stopped reading there.
03-03-2015, 08:14 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
But it also carries it a price tag that places it out of reach for many, the Pentax 645Z still is the best choice for those looking to get into Medium format digital photography.
I think the 645D is still a viable option, new or used.

03-06-2015, 02:07 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Pentax/Ricoh could simply remanufacture the old lenses with new coatings and we would *have* LS lenses for sale. Of course, the complaint that there are no LS lenses available for the system is bogus in the first place, as these lenses can be found on the used market--I have both of the ones for the 645, and I bought them from here in this last 10 months! Cheap!

Should they be modernized and redesigned? Well of course! But given the problems Ricoh seems to be continuing to have marketing and supporting this system, maybe in this case the perfect (or even the better...) is the enemy of the good? Yes, I set the bar low, because every evidence today seems to indicate that that is where it needs to be set! For now. I am really underwhelmed by Ricoh/Pentax overall support -wise, especially in North America. I know Hoya gutted Pentax, but Ricoh has far deeper pockets. I have a close friend who is a Pentax independent rep. The Sales Manager didn't even bother to communicate about the new FF camera announcement---I was the one who got the news to this person. Really not good, and there's a lot more where that came from, but I need to be discreet, unfortunately. But I could PM you if you wish with a litany of problems...in the face of what I know about, it's sort of a miracle we've got what we've got!
I bought a 75mm ls just because I thought I should have it. I tested it and found that it did it's job. the only reason I can see to get this lens is for fast action flash work.
03-06-2015, 11:05 AM   #25
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Both 645 MF LS lenses work well and are razor sharp. The manual focus and re-cocking is irritating, thought the later becomes second nature. I mostly miss the AF.

A new series of LS would sell very well, I think. At least as well as the insanely large 90mm Macro, which I thought was a completely unnecessary lens.
03-06-2015, 06:20 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ndevlin Quote
Both 645 MF LS lenses work well and are razor sharp. The manual focus and re-cocking is irritating, thought the later becomes second nature.
The lenses on the Leica S2 are self-cocking, I don't think it is possible to incorporate such a mechanism on Pentax 645 or 67 lenses - if Pentax could they would have done it already.

QuoteOriginally posted by ndevlin Quote
At least as well as the insanely large 90mm Macro, which I thought was a completely unnecessary lens.
you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But saying one of the very first optically stabilized weather resistant 90mm f/2.8 1:2 macro lens for the pentax 645 system was unnecessary is going a bit far.

The 645 120mm f/4 was getting a bit long in the tooth on digital, it has high resolution but longitudinal chromatic aberration and purple fringing are problematic at f/4 to f/6.3. The 120mm f/4 only performed consistently at f/8 and even then, stopping down to f/11 gave further improvement to image quality. The newer 90mm f/2.8 ED AW SR fares much better in this respect: at f/2.8 aberrations are visible but controlled, at f/5.6 it delivers excellent contrast and resolution on the 645Z. f/8 being the optimal aperture for the 90mm lens - one stop wider than the 120mm. And the optical stabilizer, as noisy as it is does an excellent job.

Last edited by Digitalis; 03-06-2015 at 06:42 PM.
03-08-2015, 07:21 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The lenses on the Leica S2 are self-cocking, I don't think it is possible to incorporate such a mechanism on Pentax 645 or 67 lenses - if Pentax could they would have done it already.



you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But saying one of the very first optically stabilized weather resistant 90mm f/2.8 1:2 macro lens for the pentax 645 system was unnecessary is going a bit far.

The 645 120mm f/4 was getting a bit long in the tooth on digital, it has high resolution but longitudinal chromatic aberration and purple fringing are problematic at f/4 to f/6.3. The 120mm f/4 only performed consistently at f/8 and even then, stopping down to f/11 gave further improvement to image quality. The newer 90mm f/2.8 ED AW SR fares much better in this respect: at f/2.8 aberrations are visible but controlled, at f/5.6 it delivers excellent contrast and resolution on the 645Z. f/8 being the optimal aperture for the 90mm lens - one stop wider than the 120mm. And the optical stabilizer, as noisy as it is does an excellent job.
Modern leaf shutters are electronic. The mechanical ones in the A-series 645 lenses are ancient. If they can source the shutters, Pentax can build LS lenses for the 645 system.

I'm glad you like the 90mm. Personally, I thought the size made it useless to me. The 120mm is superb. It's not a lens for wide open, and I've found every copy to be excellent (in particular for the price). I'm sure the 90mm is better, but not in a way I think I would ever see. IS is nice, but at almost any shutter speed where it matters, shutter vibration will also be a possible issue. It extends usability somewhat, but if we're talking about marginal gains in sharpness, handholding will erase those plenty fast. That's why this lens was always a head-scratcher to me. Ditto the 25mm, which was cool (I am told sharp copies existed - a fact I'll take on faith, since both that i used were disappointing).

I really wish I could sit down with Pentax and have a little chat about their development direction....
03-08-2015, 11:17 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ndevlin Quote
Modern leaf shutters are electronic. The mechanical ones in the A-series 645 lenses are ancient.
No kidding, which is why I mentioned the only two Japaneses manufacturers for them: Sekio or Copal. From what I have heard Copal are trying to get out of the shutter business*, what Seiko is doing: I haven't the faintest Idea. So it may be possible, however the question is: what lens should be equipped with a leaf shutter. Personally I would love to see something in the range of 105~150mm f/1.8~2.4 prime lens with a leaf shutter.

QuoteOriginally posted by ndevlin Quote
the 25mm, which was cool (I am told sharp copies existed - a fact I'll take on faith, since both that i used were disappointing)
I have one of the older D-FA low serial numbered ones, It was probably one of the first to come to Australia. I tested it on my optics bench: it truly is excellent especially when you compare it to lenses of similar focal length from the competition, like the Mamiya 645 28mm f/4.5 D ASPH - I just don't know what went wrong there**. However my principal gripe is that Pentax should have produced more of the 40.5mm filters for it, I'd think in their relationship with Hoya, they could have at least have come out with a variable ND*** with a range of (or set of individual) 1~10 stop ND and B&W contrast filters (which would appeal to the people who like me, are still using the excellent 645NII)

QuoteOriginally posted by ndevlin Quote
IS is nice, but at almost any shutter speed where it matters, shutter vibration will also be a possible issue.
At close focusing distances the stabilized view through the lens is very useful when focusing when hand held. For me It prevents over tensing and fatigue from trying to hold the camera steady and it allows you to conserve your energy for when you finally press the shutter. I'm sure you would agree with me that hand held macrophotography can be just as physiologically taxing as hand held telephoto work.

*or was it Compur that said that...
**Or did I get 4 bad copies of it? All I can say is that over the years Mamiya has slipped, and they used to make excellent, though at times quirky Medium format cameras.
***Yes, I know, no-one has ever made a colour neutral Variable ND filter.

Last edited by Digitalis; 03-08-2015 at 11:28 PM.
03-08-2015, 11:59 PM   #29
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I wouldn't necessarily say that the 90 is unnecessary, but also for me it's an odd duck. It has come in handy on occasions, but as the only new macro lens in the system the 90mm focal length is not convenient for macro as with 90mm the distance for common macro applications is very short and often you'd be struggling to get the shadows out of the way. Rollei has another 90 with a huge built-in hood. But most of the other manufacturers, Leica, Mamiya, Zeiss S-Planar make a 120mm lens for a reason. Rollei even has three, the 90mm Apo-Symmar, the 120mm S-Planar/Makro-Planar, and the 150mm Apo-Symmar for the bellows. Even though the 90mm Schneider for the Rollei is sharper, I have often preferred the S-Planar/Macro Planar for the reason of focusing distance.
03-09-2015, 12:32 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lacunapratum Quote
the 90mm focal length is not convenient for macro as with 90mm the distance for common macro applications is very short and often you'd be struggling to get the shadows out of the way.
True, on 35mm I prefer longer macro lenses such as the Pentax FA*200mm f/4 ED [IF] Macro, and the Sigma 180mm f/3.5 APO EX DG, but lenses like that are in rather short supply for Medium format. I find using the AF160FC ringflash goes a long way towards eliminating distracting shadows.
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