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02-23-2015, 09:23 AM   #1
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New Leaf Shutter lenses for 645Z?

I've seen several comments about new Leaf Shutter lenses for the 645Z to be released soon?? I haven't really read anything about this in magazines. Wondered if it's wishful thinking. I am holding off buying the 90mm if the LS lenses are coming.

02-23-2015, 10:51 AM   #2
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In the latest CP+ interview Pentax reps said that it's something they'd consider, but I don't think there's been any official confirmation yet.

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02-23-2015, 12:29 PM   #3
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i dont understand why they not do this....it will be nail in coffin for ultra expensive phase one back..and most of all it will gain popularity in business photography...i'm sure many nikon and canon portrait or fashion photographer will switch only for the leaf lenses....
02-23-2015, 03:26 PM   #4
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The Leica S system has a leaf shutter (Central shutter) lens line running parallel with their PL (plane shutter) lenses*. I have spoken to their people in Solms - one of their most popular portrait lenses: the 120mm f/2.5 CS** easily outsell the shutterless 100mm f/2 PL (sync speed of the CS lenses is 1/1000th).

This is an elephant in the room that Pentax can choose to ignore, but by doing so they close themselves off to a large market of professionals with deep pockets.

*though there are some lenses that do not have this option, like the Vario-Elmar-S 30-90mm f/5.6.
** Personally I prefer the APO-Elmar 180mm f/3.5 CS on my Leica S. It gives my a longer working distance and It is a true Apochromat - it has no colour fringing of any kind, unlike the faster lenses which can suffer from LoCa, though by 35mm standards all the S lenses lenses are perfect - I'm just picky, really picky.


Last edited by Digitalis; 02-23-2015 at 09:34 PM.
02-23-2015, 03:44 PM   #5
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No announcement, but...

I think the fact that they were mentioned by management at CP+ is a very positive sign. All they need to do is copy the basic design of the old ones, I would think, and add modern coatings.
02-23-2015, 04:05 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
All they need to do is copy the basic design of the old ones
That is setting the bar a bit low don't you think? you can't just shove a modern leaf shutter unit in an old lens design and hope for the best. Personally I think a re-design of the existing lenses is warranted, especially to allow for higher synch speeds. 1/1000th should be their target sync speed, and that calls for a beefier magnets on the leaf shutter unit which will make the lens heavier. Focal length should Ideally be around 105 ~ 210mm, the initial aperture should be around f/2.4 ~ f/3.5 range.

Last edited by Digitalis; 02-23-2015 at 09:36 PM.
02-23-2015, 05:34 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
you can't just shove a modern leaf shutter unit in an old lens design
There is some truth to this. The 90mm Takumar LS (6X7) is a different design from the Double Gauss 90mm Pentax. The 165LS f/4 (6X7) also differs from the 165mm f/2.8 Double Gauss in cross section. I'm guessing that the leaf shutter mechanism needs more room between the front and rear groups than the non-leaf lenses.
02-23-2015, 09:32 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by desertscape Quote
I'm guessing that the leaf shutter mechanism needs more room between the front and rear groups than the non-leaf lenses.
Correct. Especially with faster sync speeds the magnets that drive the leaf shutter mechanism have to be larger and this takes up space. If you compare a non-CS Leica S lens to the CS version there is a change in size and weight. Though remarkably in the case of the Leica APO-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 the difference between the CS and non CS versions is a rather trivial 70 grams. The non-CS Leica APO-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5 has a weight of 1135g.


Last edited by Digitalis; 02-23-2015 at 09:37 PM.
02-24-2015, 07:22 AM   #9
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My point was this...

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
That is setting the bar a bit low don't you think? you can't just shove a modern leaf shutter unit in an old lens design and hope for the best. Personally I think a re-design of the existing lenses is warranted, especially to allow for higher synch speeds. 1/1000th should be their target sync speed, and that calls for a beefier magnets on the leaf shutter unit which will make the lens heavier. Focal length should Ideally be around 105 ~ 210mm, the initial aperture should be around f/2.4 ~ f/3.5 range.
Pentax/Ricoh could simply remanufacture the old lenses with new coatings and we would *have* LS lenses for sale. Of course, the complaint that there are no LS lenses available for the system is bogus in the first place, as these lenses can be found on the used market--I have both of the ones for the 645, and I bought them from here in this last 10 months! Cheap!

Should they be modernized and redesigned? Well of course! But given the problems Ricoh seems to be continuing to have marketing and supporting this system, maybe in this case the perfect (or even the better...) is the enemy of the good? Yes, I set the bar low, because every evidence today seems to indicate that that is where it needs to be set! For now. I am really underwhelmed by Ricoh/Pentax overall support -wise, especially in North America. I know Hoya gutted Pentax, but Ricoh has far deeper pockets. I have a close friend who is a Pentax independent rep. The Sales Manager didn't even bother to communicate about the new FF camera announcement---I was the one who got the news to this person. Really not good, and there's a lot more where that came from, but I need to be discreet, unfortunately. But I could PM you if you wish with a litany of problems...in the face of what I know about, it's sort of a miracle we've got what we've got!

Last edited by texandrews; 02-24-2015 at 07:29 AM.
02-24-2015, 07:36 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
the complaint that there are no LS lenses available for the system is bogus in the first place, as these lenses can be found on the used market
Leaf shutters have a MTBF of 20,000 firings. I'm sure many of them have clocked up quite as few firings over the years. While MTBF ratings aren't concrete issues can arise from maladjustment over time of an over-used LS unit.

QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
but I need to be discreet, unfortunately. But I could PM you if you wish with a litany of problems
"Discreet" as in posting that you know privileged inside information on a public pentax forum? wow, you really are a sneaky subtle type aren't you? you don't know anything that I don't already know - I have my own sources.
02-24-2015, 01:18 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Leaf shutters have a MTBF of 20,000 firings. I'm sure many of them have clocked up quite as few firings over the years. While MTBF ratings aren't concrete issues can arise from maladjustment over time of an over-used LS unit.
That's a good point, but still, some of the posts I've read make it sound like there is no LS capability at all---and indeed there is



QuoteQuote:
"Discreet" as in posting that you know privileged inside information on a public pentax forum? wow, you really are a sneaky subtle type aren't you? you don't know anything that I don't already know - I have my own sources.
So, I'd love to hear what you know, from down under. Your Ricoh/Pentax support has sounded much better than ours. PM on the way!
02-25-2015, 01:51 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Pentax/Ricoh could simply remanufacture the old lenses with new coatings and we would *have* LS lenses for sale. Of course, the complaint that there are no LS lenses available for the system is bogus in the first place, as these lenses can be found on the used market--I have both of the ones for the 645, and I bought them from here in this last 10 months! Cheap!

Should they be modernized and redesigned? Well of course! But given the problems Ricoh seems to be continuing to have marketing and supporting this system, maybe in this case the perfect (or even the better...) is the enemy of the good? Yes, I set the bar low, because every evidence today seems to indicate that that is where it needs to be set! For now. I am really underwhelmed by Ricoh/Pentax overall support -wise, especially in North America. I know Hoya gutted Pentax, but Ricoh has far deeper pockets. I have a close friend who is a Pentax independent rep. The Sales Manager didn't even bother to communicate about the new FF camera announcement---I was the one who got the news to this person. Really not good, and there's a lot more where that came from, but I need to be discreet, unfortunately. But I could PM you if you wish with a litany of problems...in the face of what I know about, it's sort of a miracle we've got what we've got!
I'm looking at the 645Z but the service problems in the US give me pause. Are these problems for real or are the forums just attracting the disgruntled?
02-25-2015, 03:56 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
That's a good point, but still, some of the posts I've read make it sound like there is no LS capability at all---and indeed there is
yes, there is leaf shutter capability . However some of these lenses may be in dire need of servicing - I don't think pentax can do that.
02-26-2015, 09:36 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
yes, there is leaf shutter capability . However some of these lenses may be in dire need of servicing - I don't think pentax can do that.
I agree, probably beyond Ricoh/Pentax's abilities at this point. But I would think that they could be serviced by a repair place that specializes in older or mechanical cameras and lenses. There's still a good number of those around---the digital age hasn't killed them all off yet. Anyway, do we know that Pentax actually made the shutters for those lenses? They might be by Compur or someone else (I have no idea).
02-26-2015, 11:42 AM   #15
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Ordered the 90MM FA AW 2.8

After reading all the comments on Leaf Shutters I decided to go ahead and order the 90MM 2.8 macro. Not sure we will ever see new LS lenses.
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