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03-31-2015, 01:29 AM   #76
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Are there any face-to-face shots with 5DSr and 645D? I believe it would be more interesting to compare because of their equal price at the moment.

03-31-2015, 07:14 AM   #77
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Well John you certainly have a way with words, but I'll limit my response to you to just this to keep things on a factual and technical basis, to remove conjecture and not entertain ideas of anything 'personal':

QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I wouldn't think many people will look at this system for high ISO work.
John, at +200,000 ISO, with useable decent quality up to around 25,000 ISO, the 645z trumps anything else on the market in low light performance. If you have a need for low light photography, can't use a tripod or subjects are moving too fast, the 645z is the best tool available.
03-31-2015, 07:50 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by 72ndPoolShark Quote
John, at +200,000 ISO, with useable decent quality up to around 25,000 ISO, the 645z trumps anything else on the market in low light performance. If you have a need for low light photography, can't use a tripod or subjects are moving too fast, the 645z is the best tool available.
While I can't speak for others, I wouldn't expect anything less for the price myself.
04-01-2015, 05:06 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
While I can't speak for others, I wouldn't expect anything less for the price myself.
For that price I expect it to go out and fly on its own taking award-winning photo's everywhere, return home, develop & PP whilst recharging itself and send the best ones to the owner via personalised email.

04-01-2015, 06:20 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
For that price I expect it to go out and fly on its own taking award-winning photo's everywhere, return home, develop & PP whilst recharging itself and send the best ones to the owner via personalised email.
It does!
04-01-2015, 06:22 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by unkipunki Quote
I does!
Cool! Only then I won't buy it, because what's the fun in that?
04-01-2015, 06:26 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Cool! Only then I won't buy it, because what's the fun in that?
I know, I rue the day I went and bought one. I have taken no exercise since and when people ask how I took the pictures my replies seem unconvincing.
04-24-2015, 07:55 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
I've said it a number of times and I will say it again.... Pentax is going to really shake up the camera market from the more established players over the next few years.
Only if they will pull their heads out of their asses and give reasonable service.

04-25-2015, 03:14 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Pentax is not going to shake anything. Canon 5DS will still outsell the 645Z simply because the 645Z is invisible to the masses. The Canon 5Ds is going to be displayed as the best FF camera of the moment in 99% of the camera shops world wide.
Also think of the investeert needed and camera use. For studio the iso isn't cranked up, but stays Below iso 400 if it isn't on iso 100 all the time. The investeert for a studiophotographer that works with a nice set of canon lenses, needs only to investe 4000 euro! They aint investeer 15.000 euro on 645Z with some lenses.
04-25-2015, 05:05 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by aeros Quote
Only if they will pull their heads out of their asses and give reasonable service.
The way I see it is that I'm getting a medium format digital camera for 3-4x less than competing options, so something has to give. Buy a Hassy or Phase back and your local dealer will be stumbling over themselves to fix your problem, and I'm guessing that's where the price premium comes from. I find those cameras to be more fragile than the Pentax however.

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Also think of the investeert needed and camera use. For studio the iso isn't cranked up, but stays Below iso 400 if it isn't on iso 100 all the time. The investeert for a studiophotographer that works with a nice set of canon lenses, needs only to investe 4000 euro! They aint investeer 15.000 euro on 645Z with some lenses.
Check out the ISO100 crops again, the difference is clear on the fabrics, you see much better detail and color separation. If I were a fashion or product photographer the 645Z would seem to be a better pick just from that.
04-25-2015, 05:41 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kolor-Pikker Quote
Check out the ISO100 crops again, the difference is clear on the fabrics, you see much better detail and color separation. If I were a fashion or product photographer the 645Z would seem to be a better pick just from that.




At first glance, I'd say it's very close between the two. That said, I have no doubts of the MF's advantage in terms of upsizing and PP potential.
However, as far as 1:1 prints are concerned, I'm thinking we'd be hard pressed to find any distinguishable advantages in detail.
04-28-2015, 02:28 PM - 2 Likes   #87
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I own a canon system, a Sony A7R, along with a brand new 645z and here are my thoughts:

1. The Canon 5Ds has the same DR as the 5DIII which is miles below what Sony sensors can achieve.
2. Canon has produced some truly excellent zooms of late that are the best in the FF world (16-35 f4 L IS, 24-70 f2.8 L II) but 50mp is not the same as 22mp....

In comparing my new 645Z and the massive 28-45 SR against the A7R, its performance at best apertures is on par with the 55mm FE Sonnar on a per pixel basis, yet it has more of them. It also manages this right to the edges of the frame, like the 55mm, but with a much wider lens. There is a richness and depth to the images I am not sure how to describe, other than when processed well, they are much more 'luscious' that the A7R files. Having worked with 5D III files for years, I know that they are not in the same ballpark as the Sony A7 wrt PP flexibility and DR, so there is no reason to think that packing more pixels into a tiny space will even bring them into D810 territory, never mind 645Z.

I think this is Canon's last fling with old sensor tech (they had to do something, right) using the 5D III chassis, with new stuff coming in the near to medium term. I think Canon is trying to keep costs down to ride out another generation while they climb out of the hole they are in sensor technology wise.

The 28-45 performs even better on a per pixel basis on my 645Z than the 24-70 II does on my 5D III, so put the same lens on a 5DS and its not going to come close.
04-28-2015, 02:43 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by batmobile Quote
I own a canon system, a Sony A7R, along with a brand new 645z and here are my thoughts:

1. The Canon 5Ds has the same DR as the 5DIII which is miles below what Sony sensors can achieve.
2. Canon has produced some truly excellent zooms of late that are the best in the FF world (16-35 f4 L IS, 24-70 f2.8 L II) but 50mp is not the same as 22mp....

In comparing my new 645Z and the massive 28-45 SR against the A7R, its performance at best apertures is on par with the 55mm FE Sonnar on a per pixel basis, yet it has more of them. It also manages this right to the edges of the frame, like the 55mm, but with a much wider lens. There is a richness and depth to the images I am not sure how to describe, other than when processed well, they are much more 'luscious' that the A7R files. Having worked with 5D III files for years, I know that they are not in the same ballpark as the Sony A7 wrt PP flexibility and DR, so there is no reason to think that packing more pixels into a tiny space will even bring them into D810 territory, never mind 645Z.

I think this is Canon's last fling with old sensor tech (they had to do something, right) using the 5D III chassis, with new stuff coming in the near to medium term. I think Canon is trying to keep costs down to ride out another generation while they climb out of the hole they are in sensor technology wise.

The 28-45 performs even better on a per pixel basis on my 645Z than the 24-70 II does on my 5D III, so put the same lens on a 5DS and its not going to come close.
Thanks for your thoughts. Great to hear the you find the 645Z to outperform the 5D3 even with the venerable 24-70 II. That's impressive.
04-28-2015, 03:00 PM   #89
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While it is unfortunate for Canon's sensor specs specifically on the DR side of things, I for one would love to see some images from a 5DSR coupled with an Otus to see if there's isn't anything else that can be squeezed out of that sensor

That said, based on the sensor limitations, I'd love to see someone like Sony join-in on the fray by releasing a 50mp body with higher sensor characteristics than with the 5DSR. Which may or may not be significant, though interesting nonetheless for us super resolution shooters.
04-29-2015, 01:42 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by batmobile Quote
I think this is Canon's last fling with old sensor tech (they had to do something, right) using the 5D III chassis, with new stuff coming in the near to medium term. I think Canon is trying to keep costs down to ride out another generation while they climb out of the hole they are in sensor technology wise.
It's amazing how long Canon has been able to milk the 500nm process, Sony has been at 180nm since the D800, so Canon are getting slowly but surely outclassed on most fronts. Canon failed to make a compelling mirrorless camera, they failed to break into the large-sensor video camera market they themselves created, they continue to release new cameras that are basically the same model as before and before that and so on. It's just painful.

Canon has the advantage of not being solely a camera company, and they still command huge market share today, but that's also what makes them so smug and slow to respond to change.

QuoteQuote:
The 28-45 performs even better on a per pixel basis on my 645Z than the 24-70 II does on my 5D III, so put the same lens on a 5DS and its not going to come close.
Hmm it's not going to get me to get rid of my 24-70II just yet though, Canon cameras are still better for reportage, and I'd much rather take a 5D3, 24-70 and a flash with me for those purposes.
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