Originally posted by Kolor-Pikker I'm not sure that peanut butter and jelly is the reason that Canon just came out with a $3000 11-24mm full-frame lens, why they felt compelled to make top-class 17 & 24mm tilt-shift lenses, why only they have a 5x macro lens, or why they are releasing an ISO-limited, but high megapickle camera right now. Canon makes everything for everyone. They also make calculators, stepper motors, printers, scanners and medical equipment.
In any case, I just went and shot the view from across my street with both my 5D2 + 24-70II and 645Z + 55mm off the same tripod, framed the same way on the horizontal axis, shot with mirror lockup + 2sec timer... and I rather surprised at how well the Canon combo held up. If I sampled/cropped the 645Z image down to the same size as the 5D, they both look fairly similar with fine repeating detail being crisper on the 645 image, but blowing the 5D image up to the Z's resolution really shows how much more resolution it has. Here are the links to the images if someone wants to take a look:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41183616/Canon%205D2.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41183616/Pentax%20645Z.jpg
What I see is that if you're happy with the detail you're getting at a given output size, a new camera with more of everything won't automatically equal better image quality. If I were to push ISO, the 5D2 would pretty much explode by ISO3200, or adding more than 50 points in shadow recovery will show noise at ISO100, and that's where Canon's weakness is. If care is taken in exposing images so you don't have to push ISO or shadows, the 5DSR wouldn't be a significant downgrade compared to the Z, with the 5D2 I was comfortable with printing up to 13x19" or sometimes a bit more, so if one isn't doing at least twice that size, either camera would probably be overkill. In fact I'm probably really conservative with print sizes, I'm sure the 645Z can easily push out 40x60" prints.
You said Canon is being outclassed by the competition and I am agreeing with you and provided one theory as to the cause based on some insight I have gathered along the way. It is not my only theory. I also agree with you that careful exposure can equalize the DR differences in terms of results in many cases. In fact, I've said that often enough in other forums that is almost like you copy/pasted my thoughts into your thread (which I know you didn't). Going back to my original theme, Canon has been absent from the MP/DR party for a while because their core professional shooters said they didn't need it, particularly the MPs. That attitude has changed over time, maybe seeing now the value of MPs and the capture of fine detail is good for all types of photography. I was speaking in general as there are many Canon shooters, not me, who are still dissatisfied with the 5Ds R as being too little too late. They'd give up 15 MPs of that 50 for better DR. Canon says they lowered the noise floor on the 5Ds R so I will let you know how that impacts images when I take delivery of my 5Ds R on June 29th. I expect the Pentax to still be the better landscape camera.
Listen, I am a big 24-70 II fanboy. I also own, have owned or will own nearly every Canon item you've mentioned plus some but that doesn't stop me from being objective about that system's limitations. We all saw the samples from Imaging Resource from earlier in this thread. From that comparison, I immediately made the decision to buy the Pentax 645z.
Regarding your samples, I've cropped a few pixels from each. I am not an equivalence specialist by any means so I do not know how many Equivaence Laws I have broken, but to my eye, the Pentax image is clearly superior. To be honest, I am not sure what you are getting at regarding the samples. Are you saying, in theory, its just pixels right? 50 MP = 50 MP? Is that the gist? I dunno what I am supposed to be seeing. I'd post my crops but I do not know how to embed images in a way that folks can click on them and see the full size image. Attachments do not seem to be actively resizable and they appear to be limited to a smallish size.
---------- Post added 04-30-15 at 06:41 AM ----------
Originally posted by Rondec I guess I just don't understand the point of 50 megapixels. Sports shooters don't want 50 megapixels. Nor do portrait shooters. The photogs (I think) who would want the most megapixels would be landscape shooters, where it wouldn't be unusual to want to print really big.
First of all, please see the following quotes from the Canon Press Release for the 5Ds & 5Ds R. These are direct statements as to the markets Canon believes their high MP camera addresses.
"Delivering unparalleled quality, the cameras [5Ds & 5Ds R] provide an exceptional combination of resolution, responsiveness and durability,
whether shooting landscapes, architecture, high fashion or portraiture, either personally or professionally."
" [5Ds R]
Great for landscape photographers, where patterns are organic, the camera’s low pass cancellation filter produces the stunning level of detail required to turn a great shot into an incredible shot."
That's Canon's view. That is not mine - entirely. I think high MP/high resolution sensors improve all photography. More detail creates more realism IMO (can we assume that the rest of the statements in this post are my opinion only?). The problem comes operationally. Moving 50 MPs to the buffer and on to storage, high fps rates do not seem possible at this time making these cameras less desirable for some purposes. Herein lies the principle of compromise inherent in all camera systems.
More MPs, more resolution, whatever we are calling it is not just for printing really big. It should also be thought of as capture resolution. Finer detail is being captured with more clarity. Cropping an image is essentially increasing the size of the image within a smaller dimension. When you capture detail, the actual detail doesn't disappear from the image when downsizing is employed. Unless we are talking 4x6s, this additional/improved detail manifests itself in smaller images as better clarity, perhaps even makes the image appear sharper, crisper [pick an adjective].