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06-03-2015, 07:37 AM   #1
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Capture One 8.3

just wondering:
Any word on 645Z DNG support changing with CO8.3?
I'm not very hopeful, but thought I would ask if they enabled it with a proper ICC profile.

If no, has anyone tried Alex Munoz's base profile and compared it to embedded in LR?

RG

06-03-2015, 08:08 AM   #2
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As far as I know it's just to add support for Phase's new XF camera and digital backs, as well as the Canon 5DS/R, plus some bug fixes.

Phase likely won't ever add support for Hasselblad, 645D/Z and Leica S cameras, since they're all competing products.

ICC profile aside, there is a lot of tweaking that goes inside C1 for each camera that includes optical correction, highlight/shadow recovery, noise reduction, sharpening, moire reduction and demosaicing algorithms. Unless their engineers get their hands on a 645Z and make sure that C1 can wring the most out of the sensor's potential, you may as well use Lightroom instead.
06-03-2015, 08:59 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kolor-Pikker Quote
As far as I know it's just to add support for Phase's new XF camera and digital backs, as well as the Canon 5DS/R, plus some bug fixes.

Phase likely won't ever add support for Hasselblad, 645D/Z and Leica S cameras, since they're all competing products.

ICC profile aside, there is a lot of tweaking that goes inside C1 for each camera that includes optical correction, highlight/shadow recovery, noise reduction, sharpening, moire reduction and demosaicing algorithms. Unless their engineers get their hands on a 645Z and make sure that C1 can wring the most out of the sensor's potential, you may as well use Lightroom instead.

Gotcha- thanks.
06-11-2015, 08:02 PM   #4
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I've got to say as a long term C1 Pro user, that I'm disappointed that the 645D gets only a generic DNG profile, no doubt to it being somewhat of a competitor to P1 products as Kolor-Pikker said.

07-12-2015, 02:31 AM   #5
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I was disappointed after upgrading to C1 8.0, the Color was awful with 645z files.
But I read about cheating with Exiftools, rename the field "Model" with IQ250 and tried that out- surprise ! No Color cast. Dont know whether the C1 makes use of the embedded Profile, or the IQ250 Profile is ok because of same sensor. Anyway, it works and I will try C1 for my 645z files in the future.


100% crop:
07-13-2015, 06:34 AM   #6
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My own experience with Capture One (and I've tried all the versions up to 8.2) is that their claims of superior RAW conversion are not truly borne out, at least for non Phase products. I used to own the !Q180 and certainly for those files it was good, but even there, it often got the native SK lenses wrong (wouldn't show up as that specific lens). They claim on their website that their results are 'sharper' but if you look closely and disable ALL 'enhancements' during RAW conversion, they are no better than Adobe.

For my 645 I've been using the Huelight profiles in LR, but mostly I've not noticed any major problems with Adobe's processing the 'embedded' profile either.
07-13-2015, 03:49 PM   #7
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exif etc

Well, I feel a bit embarrassed, but I downloaded the exif tools I recall and could not get it to re-assign the model number using terminal commands.
I consider myself a bit of a techie, so I stopped after trying for a bit, with a bruised ego.

Is it actually easy?

I have not had any significant problems with the current LR 6 though- I just miss that color grading for skin and smoothing . . . I just cannot get even skin tones in LR the same way I can in CO Pro.

If someone knows a comparable way in LR to select skin tones and smooth them / even them out- pulling them together- and affecting saturation/hue exclusively in a way that works as easily as LR- I am all ears!

R
07-13-2015, 07:29 PM   #8
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P645D exiftool tweak for C1 Pro - H4D-40 perhaps?

QuoteOriginally posted by Carsten_R Quote
I was disappointed after upgrading to C1 8.0, the Color was awful with 645z files.
But I read about cheating with Exiftools, rename the field "Model" with IQ250 and tried that out- surprise ! No Color cast. Dont know whether the C1 makes use of the embedded Profile, or the IQ250 Profile is ok because of same sensor. Anyway, it works and I will try C1 for my 645z files in the future.
Thanks a lot Carsten for this very useful info.

I already use exiftools in my edits to Samuli Verhonen's stepped sharpening scripts ( from the FM forum) so hopefully I can do a similar substitution for my P645D processing.
I see great colour and contrast on the back LCD of my 645D, but I don't seem to be able to get similar results from either LR (I am a novice with that) or C1 pro, noting the latter is unfairly hobbling MF competitor cameras with its use of generic profiles.

Any suggestions for the model type I should substitute? I think the Hasselblad H4D-40 is the closest?

TIA,
David

07-14-2015, 11:38 AM   #9
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running exiftools

QuoteOriginally posted by rgerst Quote
Well, I feel a bit embarrassed, but I downloaded the exif tools I recall and could not get it to re-assign the model number using terminal commands.
I consider myself a bit of a techie, so I stopped after trying for a bit, with a bruised ego.

Is it actually easy?

I have not had any significant problems with the current LR 6 though- I just miss that color grading for skin and smoothing . . . I just cannot get even skin tones in LR the same way I can in CO Pro.

If someone knows a comparable way in LR to select skin tones and smooth them / even them out- pulling them together- and affecting saturation/hue exclusively in a way that works as easily as LR- I am all ears!

R

I was not successful, too, with the command line Version. Loong ago that I fiddled with DOS 3.1 commands

-
so I went for the lazy way, and installed ExifToolGUI .


BTW, in LR6 you can make a selective brush or radial filter adjustment: less clarity, plus added sharpness. There is a preset to soften Skin tones, too but too aggressive IMO with -100 clarity and +25 sharpness. I use sometimes about -50/ +20 or so.

---------- Post added 07-14-15 at 08:43 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by lenticular Quote
..... Any suggestions for the model type I should substitute? I think the Hasselblad H4D-40 is the closest?

TIA,
David

I tried "IQ250" as Substitute for "Pentax 645z" in the field "Model", and it works. Same sensor. I hope this tweak will be possible for a while, until PhaseOne smells the rat





Carsten

Last edited by Carsten_R; 07-14-2015 at 11:44 AM.
07-21-2015, 06:08 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Carsten_R Quote
I was not successful, too, with the command line Version. Loong ago that I fiddled with DOS 3.1 commands

-
so I went for the lazy way, and installed ExifToolGUI .


BTW, in LR6 you can make a selective brush or radial filter adjustment: less clarity, plus added sharpness. There is a preset to soften Skin tones, too but too aggressive IMO with -100 clarity and +25 sharpness. I use sometimes about -50/ +20 or so.

---------- Post added 07-14-15 at 08:43 PM ----------




I tried "IQ250" as Substitute for "Pentax 645z" in the field "Model", and it works. Same sensor. I hope this tweak will be possible for a while, until PhaseOne smells the rat





Carsten
Thank you again- Mac guy here so the GUI I am afraid would not work. I will try the command line entry again this weekend when I have a bit of time . . . SO far I am feeling pretty better with LR 6 though.

---------- Post added 07-21-15 at 06:11 AM ----------

Just found this for Macs:
https://hvdwolf.github.io/pyExifToolGUI/
will give it w try
07-21-2015, 12:49 PM   #11
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Substituting the sensor model because "it's the same" is not very accurate, they are actually different sensors based on the same chip.
The digital back versions differ in the CFA, supporting electronics, active resolution, sensitivity range, and possibly other ways I'm not aware of. It's like saying that two cars with a 4.6L V8 engine must perform the same and require the same tune ups without knowing the specifics.

I think that better effort would be placed in petitioning Phase to update their software, there are only like 3 or 4 forums on the internet dedicated to discussing digital medium format, so the community is small enough for any amount of voiced opinion to make them listen.

Despite the potentially negative tone of my initial post in this thread, I'm actually hopeful of Phase waking up and smelling the roses one of these days. While I had thoughts about it, a Phase camera was never in my budget, nor would it have been appropriate for my usage, so they're doing nothing but losing business, as in my opinion, the 645Z simply isn't competition to anything they produce. It doesn't have a removable back, it's not as good at tethering, no leaf shutters, and no full-frame option - it's as absurd as saying that 24-70mm 2.8 zooms pose competition to 35mm 1.4 lenses.

Capture One is actually free to use for owners of their digital backs, only those who want to use other brands need to pay up, so why the hold up? Heck I'd even pay double if it meant going back to using C1.

Last edited by Kolor-Pikker; 07-21-2015 at 12:57 PM.
07-22-2015, 01:37 AM   #12
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hi guys, have downloaded the mac version.
now what?
the pyexiftoolgui won't open, not even with control held down...
what do I have to do?
would really love to check this out, since I got to edit some portraits and the colourtool in C1 is the best...
please help
cheers
Stephan
07-23-2015, 04:07 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by zobeleye Quote
hi guys, have downloaded the mac version.
now what?
the pyexiftoolgui won't open, not even with control held down...
what do I have to do?
would really love to check this out, since I got to edit some portraits and the colourtool in C1 is the best...
please help
cheers
Stephan
did you already download and install exiftools?
I installed latest version exiftools, then downloaded the pyexif mac version.

when I clicked on the mac gui to open (with contrl) it opens and I can select images and change the model names -
I changed all of them on one image just now to test it (had planned to do it this weekend)- it opens in CO.
There is some redshift in skin tones that looks similar to embedded in LR- but other than that, color looks very close.
I really wish the CO team would open this to the 645z- it is NOT a competitor to their back- totally different animal- which is why I maintain an H2 with Phaseone backs - and use them differently and separately from the Pentax. It would increase my loyalty to CO.
07-24-2015, 04:01 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kolor-Pikker Quote
Substituting the sensor model because "it's the same" is not very accurate, they are actually different sensors based on the same chip.
The digital back versions differ in the CFA, supporting electronics, active resolution, sensitivity range, and possibly other ways I'm not aware of. It's like saying that two cars with a 4.6L V8 engine must perform the same and require the same tune ups without knowing the specifics...
Agreed, I wasn't expecting a miraculous transformation ( no pun intended ), for the reasons you state, however perhaps it would be better than the current limitation of a generic DNG profile that's offered for the 645D.
07-24-2015, 03:34 PM   #15
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managed to open the gui, and could save modelname to files.
photo ninja does and sees the altered sensor-info and applies the iq250 profile.
however C1 8.2 does still not open the file.
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