What is your dream camera?

**jpzk** · 08-07-2015, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

To give you some idea of the sensor count and individual receptor density of an eagle's eye, the human retina has over 60,000,000 cones (60 mp) with a maximum density (in the fovea) if 125,000/square mm. At that density a full-frame sensor would have about 108,000,000 pixels (108 mp) But the central part of an eagle's eye has a significantly higher density of receptors. Fine for detail, but what about low-light noise, and no lens would be worthy of such a pixel count.

FOLLOWUP: Just checked and the maximum receptor density of an eagle retina is about 1,000,000/square mm. To have the equivalent pixel density, a FF sensor would need about 864 mp.

Being no good at math, I don't understand your explanation except for one thing: the eagle's eyes are some sharp "sensors" !!

kadajawi · 08-07-2015, 10:50 AM

K-3 with the latest BSI sensor
hybrid viewfinder that lets me use an OVF or an EVF and gives me a RGB histogram that shows the full range of the scene and what the sensor can record while shooting in OVF mode (exposure meter)
An metering mode that tries to fit the whole scene into the dynamic range, even if that means the image looks over or under exposed
AF mode where you define the closest and furthest part of the image that should be in focus and that then selects the right distance and aperture
Fn button just like with *ist Pentaxes
Samsung processor and software
activated SR during video with different settings to influence SR behaviour
MJPEG, h264 AND HEVC
4K video
log mode
HDR and WCG video
API with USB and Wi-Fi connection so that we can build all sorts of programs to control the camera. A program that shifts around the sensor, and every time takes 5 photos with exposure bracketing, and at the same time focus stacking? Why not? A program designed to do time lapses moving the sensor and making sure that exposure doesn't jump when you turn it into a video, of course.
USB type C. More robust, more functionality. It does HDMI. Can supply the camera with power and charge the battery via an external USB battery that you can find anywhere or readily available chargers. Connecting external drives to directly write photos and videos should also be possible.
Clean HDMI out without any overlays, full resolution (1080p and 4K).
Pixel binning in video mode, alternatively a 1:1 crop. You can switch instantly even while recording. Also a line skipping mode to reduce the rolling shutter effect.. yes there'll be aliasing etc., but when the camera is moving fast you won't notice, but you will notice rolling shutter. And when the camera is moving slowly it's the other way round.
A mirror that can change how much light it lets through to the AF sensor. That would enable a larger and brighter OVF as well as an AF that works even better in low light situations.

**UncleVanya** · 08-07-2015, 11:20 AM - **1 Like**

K3

And I own it!

RonHendriks1966 · 08-07-2015, 12:30 PM

I have been thinking about this and how it could be an exceptional camera. Combining the strengths and products of Pentax one could make one super great camera.

So the 67D is the missing camera in the line-up (next to the ordinary fullframe ). One could create it in a way that it can serve many purposes so that you can attach many different lenses. A kind of what Sony is doing for the nex wich can hold many different types of lenses.

So think out of the box.......

The 67D should be mirrorless.
The focal flange distance from sensor to the mount should be the same as with Pentax K-mount.
The mount should be large enough for 67 lenses.
a small set of full electronic lenses for 67D should be made with the same working distance to the sensor as K-mount uses.
There should be some adapters made to use different lenses on the camera.
adapters should be made for K-mount (basicly screw in mount since the focal flange distance is already good), Pentax 645-lenses and original Pentax 67 lenses.
The sensor should be made as the 645Z, but larger. A sensor that is 4 times the area of a Full Frame sensor. This would make a 125 megapixels sensor.
The camera should work in crop modes, according to the used lenses.
Ofcourse this should have next to working in liveview also an excellent EVF.

Balancing the system is a tricky, but important issue. This camera can hold all old 67 lenses and give full sensor use with 125 megapixels. When the 645-adapter is used the sensor crop should be as with 645Z and give 51 megapixels. When a K-mount adapter is attached one gets a 30 megapixels camera.

Maybe some other adapters can be made for other large format lenses.

AUTO FOCUS
This is ofcourse with combined on sensor af points. Only SDM support. But for K-mount, 645-mount and for 67-mount.

Lenses
Just a few new auto focus lenses should be made. These are with the new short flange distance and don't need an adapter. The camera probably makes it's best at landscape, portrait and advertising. So just a few lenses would cut the deal.

SENSOR
Thè sensor is with 4 times the size of full frame a little crop from original 67, but this is maybe good for old lenses. The sensor with a size of 53 x 66,25 mm contains 10.000 x 12.500 pixels and that is 125 megapixels.

Standard lens 85mm/f2.8
Portrait prime 150mm/f2.8
landscape zoomlens 44-75mm/f4.5
tele zoomlens 100-200mm/f4.5
tele prime 300mm/f4

Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 08-08-2015 at 08:32 AM.

kadajawi · 08-07-2015, 12:43 PM

What are you going to do with 125 MP? Equip a surveillance drone? What could possibly be the use for that resolution? The memory requirements, computer requirements, the cost of that sensor, ... I'm happy with 16 MP. Besides, f2.8? You'll have the DoF of a sheet of paper.

And if you really need that resolution, isn't there this Gigapixel device or so that allows you to automatically create huge panoramas, with 1000 MP or as much as you want?

RonHendriks1966 · 08-07-2015, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

What are you going to do with 125 MP? Equip a surveillance drone? What could possibly be the use for that resolution? The memory requirements, computer requirements, the cost of that sensor, ... I'm happy with 16 MP. Besides, f2.8? You'll have the DoF of a sheet of paper.

And if you really need that resolution, isn't there this Gigapixel device or so that allows you to automatically create huge panoramas, with 1000 MP or as much as you want?

Well this camera needs only a quarter of the shot with this gigapanorama device then made with other full frame camera's.

kadajawi · 08-07-2015, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Well this camera needs only a quarter of the shot with this gigapanorama device then made with other full frame camera's.

Yeah, but again... why? I'd like to hear a good reason for why you'd need such a high resolution. Any use case. I'm curious.

And if you thought the 645Z is expensive... a camera with such a large sensor would COST. I'd expect it to cost tens of thousands at the very least.

**hjoseph7** · 08-07-2015, 03:05 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by plooksta

Not so big! The Mamiya 6 is miniature when collapsed. Telephoto lenses would however, be a challenge. Hey 20 EVs I could live without it, but dreams are dreams.

My dream camera would be a Digital version of a Mamiya 6 with all the lenses. This camera would have a genuine Medium Format sensor, not a 35mm sensor packed with pixels like the canon 5Ds. It would also come with built-in tilt-shift, built-in Gradual ND filters and built-in ND filters and the ability to shoot at 1/8000 of a second . Forget all that Wi-Fi, GPS nonsense.

bibz · 08-08-2015, 12:35 AM

Does everyone here have rubbish eyesight or have they not seen how crap evf's are. Mirrorless fine, if you can work out a way to get me a huge big optical viewfinder some other way! Any digital screen/sensor will be rubbish in a matter of years. I want more film choices, and quick/cheap/easy process options. Imagine a velvia that was developed in a toaster sized object in 5 minutes. Seriously!

Dartmoor Dave · 08-08-2015, 12:48 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by bibz

I want more film choices, and quick/cheap/easy process options. Imagine a velvia that was developed in a toaster sized object in 5 minutes. Seriously!

Or they could just bring back Kodachrome and give us all the opportunity to once again use the greatest full frame sensor that ever existed.

kadajawi · 08-08-2015, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by bibz

Does everyone here have rubbish eyesight or have they not seen how crap evf's are. Mirrorless fine, if you can work out a way to get me a huge big optical viewfinder some other way! Any digital screen/sensor will be rubbish in a matter of years. I want more film choices, and quick/cheap/easy process options. Imagine a velvia that was developed in a toaster sized object in 5 minutes. Seriously!

Isn't it part of the charm of film that developing the film isn't so easy? Also, you have lots of control over the look of the film when you develop it yourself. A machine that develops it automatically and quickly exists, but those are a bit expensive and they are boring. Do it yourself.

As for crappy EVFs... APS-C viewfinders are rubbish too. FF aren't to good either. EVFs can be bigger, and they can use higher res screens. They aren't for the moment, but look at mobile phone screens. The resolutions are quickly rising beyond what you can see. 6" with 4K is the current limit. Everdisplay reveals the world's first 4K AMOLED display (6 inches, 734 PPI) The processors to actually deliver the required pictures to the sensor are improving too.

Kolor-Pikker · 08-08-2015, 02:46 AM

Originally posted by texandrews

Isn't the problem the flange-back distance? None of the legacy lenses (probably none of the lenses) would work without adapters, making the lanes longer and throwing the balance off. That's a problem with the Sony A7 series, and the lenses are mostly much smaller. It wouldn't be great with some of the big/heavy 645 zooms...

On the contrary, if the sensor were placed closer to the back of the camera instead of roughly in the middle, it would actually improve balance. The electronics could be placed wherever within the frame, so if the sensor were located directly behind the LCD panel, that would shave a whole 3.5cm off the length of the camera, and place the lens mount around where the bracket button is. The pentaprism would also no longer have to project the image to the eye piece as far, which could lead to reduced tunnel effect as well.

And all of this could be done even if the camera had a 40x54mm sensor in it, the Z axis is inflated for no reason at all, unless there's something the engineers at Pentax know that we don't.

kadajawi · 08-08-2015, 07:48 AM

I highly doubt camera makers have the electronics behind the sensor if they could avoid it. There will be good reasons for that... maybe the signal paths can't be too long? Especially Pentax is very keen on producing small cameras. I have no doubt that if they could do a better job in this area, they would.

RonHendriks1966 · 08-08-2015, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by bibz

Does everyone here have rubbish eyesight or have they not seen how crap evf's are. Mirrorless fine, if you can work out a way to get me a huge big optical viewfinder some other way! Any digital screen/sensor will be rubbish in a matter of years. I want more film choices, and quick/cheap/easy process options. Imagine a velvia that was developed in a toaster sized object in 5 minutes. Seriously!

To make the 67D multi mount as in my post, there is simply no room for any mirrorbox. So it could be some transcendente or just a good EVF that is better then what is around. Probably the cost saving in either the EVF or the processor is making it sub par.

plooksta · 08-08-2015, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave

Or they could just bring back Kodachrome and give us all the opportunity to once again use the greatest full frame sensor that ever existed.

What's the deal with kodachrome? Green cast, no dynamic range, no latitude, high contrast. Yuck. Provia kicked its butt.

08-07-2015, 10:50 AM	#47
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	K-3 with the latest BSI sensor hybrid viewfinder that lets me use an OVF or an EVF and gives me a RGB histogram that shows the full range of the scene and what the sensor can record while shooting in OVF mode (exposure meter) An metering mode that tries to fit the whole scene into the dynamic range, even if that means the image looks over or under exposed AF mode where you define the closest and furthest part of the image that should be in focus and that then selects the right distance and aperture Fn button just like with ist Pentaxes Samsung processor and software activated SR during video with different settings to influence SR behaviour MJPEG, h264 AND HEVC 4K video log mode HDR and WCG video API with USB and Wi-Fi connection so that we can build all sorts of programs to control the camera. A program that shifts around the sensor, and every time takes 5 photos with exposure bracketing, and at the same time focus stacking? Why not? A program designed to do time lapses moving the sensor and making sure that exposure doesn't jump when you turn it into a video, of course. USB type C. More robust, more functionality. It does HDMI. Can supply the camera with power and charge the battery via an external USB battery that you can find anywhere or readily available chargers. Connecting external drives to directly write photos and videos should also be possible. Clean HDMI out without any overlays, full resolution (1080p and 4K). Pixel binning in video mode, alternatively a 1:1 crop. You can switch instantly even while recording. Also a line skipping mode to reduce the rolling shutter effect.. yes there'll be aliasing etc., but when the camera is moving fast you won't notice, but you will notice rolling shutter. And when the camera is moving slowly it's the other way round. A mirror that can change how much light it lets through to the AF sensor. That would enable a larger and brighter OVF as well as an AF that works even better in low light situations. Last edited by kadajawi; 08-07-2015 at 11:18 AM.*

08-07-2015, 12:30 PM	#49
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	67D ultra mount I have been thinking about this and how it could be an exceptional camera. Combining the strengths and products of Pentax one could make one super great camera. So the 67D is the missing camera in the line-up (next to the ordinary fullframe ). One could create it in a way that it can serve many purposes so that you can attach many different lenses. A kind of what Sony is doing for the nex wich can hold many different types of lenses. So think out of the box....... The 67D should be mirrorless. The focal flange distance from sensor to the mount should be the same as with Pentax K-mount. The mount should be large enough for 67 lenses. a small set of full electronic lenses for 67D should be made with the same working distance to the sensor as K-mount uses. There should be some adapters made to use different lenses on the camera. adapters should be made for K-mount (basicly screw in mount since the focal flange distance is already good), Pentax 645-lenses and original Pentax 67 lenses. The sensor should be made as the 645Z, but larger. A sensor that is 4 times the area of a Full Frame sensor. This would make a 125 megapixels sensor. The camera should work in crop modes, according to the used lenses. Ofcourse this should have next to working in liveview also an excellent EVF. Balancing the system is a tricky, but important issue. This camera can hold all old 67 lenses and give full sensor use with 125 megapixels. When the 645-adapter is used the sensor crop should be as with 645Z and give 51 megapixels. When a K-mount adapter is attached one gets a 30 megapixels camera. Maybe some other adapters can be made for other large format lenses. AUTO FOCUS This is ofcourse with combined on sensor af points. Only SDM support. But for K-mount, 645-mount and for 67-mount. Lenses Just a few new auto focus lenses should be made. These are with the new short flange distance and don't need an adapter. The camera probably makes it's best at landscape, portrait and advertising. So just a few lenses would cut the deal. SENSOR Thè sensor is with 4 times the size of full frame a little crop from original 67, but this is maybe good for old lenses. The sensor with a size of 53 x 66,25 mm contains 10.000 x 12.500 pixels and that is 125 megapixels. Standard lens 85mm/f2.8 Portrait prime 150mm/f2.8 landscape zoomlens 44-75mm/f4.5 tele zoomlens 100-200mm/f4.5 tele prime 300mm/f4 Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 08-08-2015 at 08:32 AM.

08-07-2015, 03:05 PM - 1 Like	#53
hjoseph7 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,047	Digital Mamiya 6 Originally posted by plooksta Not so big! The Mamiya 6 is miniature when collapsed. Telephoto lenses would however, be a challenge. Hey 20 EVs I could live without it, but dreams are dreams. My dream camera would be a Digital version of a Mamiya 6 with all the lenses. This camera would have a genuine Medium Format sensor, not a 35mm sensor packed with pixels like the canon 5Ds. It would also come with built-in tilt-shift, built-in Gradual ND filters and built-in ND filters and the ability to shoot at 1/8000 of a second . Forget all that Wi-Fi, GPS nonsense.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
What lens is on your camera right now?	mgvh	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	287	03-10-2015 05:48 PM
Poll: What is your favourite Pentax camera (using an ARM processor)?	HavelockV	Pentax DSLR Discussion	6	04-22-2014 07:10 AM
What is your favoriets camera?	Unregistered	Visitors' Center	13	10-04-2011 08:35 AM
What is your dream lense?	ghelary	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	78	02-10-2010 06:06 PM
What is your favorite/dream lens?	lastdodobird	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	43	03-11-2008 03:38 PM

08-07-2015, 10:13 AM	#46
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	Originally posted by WPRESTO To give you some idea of the sensor count and individual receptor density of an eagle's eye, the human retina has over 60,000,000 cones (60 mp) with a maximum density (in the fovea) if 125,000/square mm. At that density a full-frame sensor would have about 108,000,000 pixels (108 mp) But the central part of an eagle's eye has a significantly higher density of receptors. Fine for detail, but what about low-light noise, and no lens would be worthy of such a pixel count. FOLLOWUP: Just checked and the maximum receptor density of an eagle retina is about 1,000,000/square mm. To have the equivalent pixel density, a FF sensor would need about 864 mp. Being no good at math, I don't understand your explanation except for one thing: the eagle's eyes are some sharp "sensors" !!

08-07-2015, 11:20 AM - 1 Like	#48
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,404	K3 And I own it!

08-07-2015, 12:43 PM	#50
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	What are you going to do with 125 MP? Equip a surveillance drone? What could possibly be the use for that resolution? The memory requirements, computer requirements, the cost of that sensor, ... I'm happy with 16 MP. Besides, f2.8? You'll have the DoF of a sheet of paper. And if you really need that resolution, isn't there this Gigapixel device or so that allows you to automatically create huge panoramas, with 1000 MP or as much as you want?

08-07-2015, 12:46 PM	#51
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by kadajawi What are you going to do with 125 MP? Equip a surveillance drone? What could possibly be the use for that resolution? The memory requirements, computer requirements, the cost of that sensor, ... I'm happy with 16 MP. Besides, f2.8? You'll have the DoF of a sheet of paper. And if you really need that resolution, isn't there this Gigapixel device or so that allows you to automatically create huge panoramas, with 1000 MP or as much as you want? Well this camera needs only a quarter of the shot with this gigapanorama device then made with other full frame camera's.

08-07-2015, 02:11 PM	#52
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Well this camera needs only a quarter of the shot with this gigapanorama device then made with other full frame camera's. Yeah, but again... why? I'd like to hear a good reason for why you'd need such a high resolution. Any use case. I'm curious. And if you thought the 645Z is expensive... a camera with such a large sensor would COST. I'd expect it to cost tens of thousands at the very least.

08-08-2015, 12:35 AM	#54
bibz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Newcastle, AU! Posts: 276	Does everyone here have rubbish eyesight or have they not seen how crap evf's are. Mirrorless fine, if you can work out a way to get me a huge big optical viewfinder some other way! Any digital screen/sensor will be rubbish in a matter of years. I want more film choices, and quick/cheap/easy process options. Imagine a velvia that was developed in a toaster sized object in 5 minutes. Seriously!

08-08-2015, 12:48 AM - 2 Likes	#55
Dartmoor Dave Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Dartmoor, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,882	Originally posted by bibz I want more film choices, and quick/cheap/easy process options. Imagine a velvia that was developed in a toaster sized object in 5 minutes. Seriously! Or they could just bring back Kodachrome and give us all the opportunity to once again use the greatest full frame sensor that ever existed.

08-08-2015, 01:13 AM	#56
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by bibz Does everyone here have rubbish eyesight or have they not seen how crap evf's are. Mirrorless fine, if you can work out a way to get me a huge big optical viewfinder some other way! Any digital screen/sensor will be rubbish in a matter of years. I want more film choices, and quick/cheap/easy process options. Imagine a velvia that was developed in a toaster sized object in 5 minutes. Seriously! Isn't it part of the charm of film that developing the film isn't so easy? Also, you have lots of control over the look of the film when you develop it yourself. A machine that develops it automatically and quickly exists, but those are a bit expensive and they are boring. Do it yourself. As for crappy EVFs... APS-C viewfinders are rubbish too. FF aren't to good either. EVFs can be bigger, and they can use higher res screens. They aren't for the moment, but look at mobile phone screens. The resolutions are quickly rising beyond what you can see. 6" with 4K is the current limit. Everdisplay reveals the world's first 4K AMOLED display (6 inches, 734 PPI) The processors to actually deliver the required pictures to the sensor are improving too.

08-08-2015, 02:46 AM	#57
Kolor-Pikker Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 344	Originally posted by texandrews Isn't the problem the flange-back distance? None of the legacy lenses (probably none of the lenses) would work without adapters, making the lanes longer and throwing the balance off. That's a problem with the Sony A7 series, and the lenses are mostly much smaller. It wouldn't be great with some of the big/heavy 645 zooms... On the contrary, if the sensor were placed closer to the back of the camera instead of roughly in the middle, it would actually improve balance. The electronics could be placed wherever within the frame, so if the sensor were located directly behind the LCD panel, that would shave a whole 3.5cm off the length of the camera, and place the lens mount around where the bracket button is. The pentaprism would also no longer have to project the image to the eye piece as far, which could lead to reduced tunnel effect as well. And all of this could be done even if the camera had a 40x54mm sensor in it, the Z axis is inflated for no reason at all, unless there's something the engineers at Pentax know that we don't.

08-08-2015, 07:48 AM	#58
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	I highly doubt camera makers have the electronics behind the sensor if they could avoid it. There will be good reasons for that... maybe the signal paths can't be too long? Especially Pentax is very keen on producing small cameras. I have no doubt that if they could do a better job in this area, they would.

08-08-2015, 08:30 AM	#59
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by bibz Does everyone here have rubbish eyesight or have they not seen how crap evf's are. Mirrorless fine, if you can work out a way to get me a huge big optical viewfinder some other way! Any digital screen/sensor will be rubbish in a matter of years. I want more film choices, and quick/cheap/easy process options. Imagine a velvia that was developed in a toaster sized object in 5 minutes. Seriously! To make the 67D multi mount as in my post, there is simply no room for any mirrorbox. So it could be some transcendente or just a good EVF that is better then what is around. Probably the cost saving in either the EVF or the processor is making it sub par.

08-08-2015, 03:44 PM	#60
plooksta Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 158 Original Poster	Originally posted by Dartmoor Dave Or they could just bring back Kodachrome and give us all the opportunity to once again use the greatest full frame sensor that ever existed. What's the deal with kodachrome? Green cast, no dynamic range, no latitude, high contrast. Yuck. Provia kicked its butt.