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10-24-2015, 05:40 PM   #16
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Good news about the 645Z and their continued commitment. Glad to see their thoughts on service improve. I have asked myself what it would take to retain my excitement, and it would be the following lenses:

A wider wide angle lens than the 28-45mm with good distortion correction.
An improved 150mm or so portrait lens.
A new 120-150mm macro lens.
An improved 300mm ED f4, perhaps with shake reduction.

Of course this is an n=1, and I may not be one of Pentax' target customers, but that's what it take for me to retain excitement. And the service thing, obviously.

Many of the other projects mentioned would not interest me, the fixed-lens MF mirrorless, the FF, etc.

Thom Hogan appears to be quite accurate, unless Ricoh/Pentax decide to do something. Canon has had losses, but I continuously remain impressed with the new lenses they are coming out with. 11-24mm, the DO lenses (even 800mm planned!). Their 17mm shift remains unparalleled. They should improve on the sensor side, though. Nikon keeps on turning out reasonable cameras, but I agree that they have lost their drive for innovation. Their wonderful commitment to macro and specialty lenses from the past is almost gone. It's not the Nikon company I used to respect. I admire Olympus and Panasonic, and their continuous push toward innovation, even though both are much smaller companies.

Hope Ricoh/Pentax return to where they were. Hope they listen to photographers.

10-24-2015, 06:02 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lacunapratum Quote
Hope Ricoh/Pentax return to where they were. Hope they listen to photographers.
Frankly, I believe they are listening. Thanks to Hoya, they've just fallen so far behind that it will take time before we see concrete evidence (line expansion beyond just the FF and a few lenses).

Think professional MF system, professional narrow-market FF system (targeted at segments of the professional market) and interesting enthusiast APSc and FF cameras and lenses. They'll leave Costco to Canon and Nikon.
10-24-2015, 06:11 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Frankly, I believe they are listening. Thanks to Hoya, they've just fallen so far behind that it will take time before we see concrete evidence (line expansion beyond just the FF and a few lenses).

Think professional MF system, professional narrow-market FF system (targeted at segments of the professional market) and interesting enthusiast APSc and FF cameras and lenses. They'll leave Costco to Canon and Nikon.
Exactly, I think what you are thinking. Just like Apple leaves Costco to Samsung and various others
10-25-2015, 12:17 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Frankly, I believe they are listening. Thanks to Hoya, they've just fallen so far behind that it will take time before we see concrete evidence (line expansion beyond just the FF and a few lenses).
Yes, this is the impression I was getting listening at the booth at PhotoPlus Expo

QuoteQuote:
Think professional MF system, professional narrow-market FF system (targeted at segments of the professional market) and interesting enthusiast APSc and FF cameras and lenses. They'll leave Costco to Canon and Nikon.
Agreed---the guy who was talking to me explicitly identified the "race to the bottom" of the market as something Pentax would not pursue.

That said, the projected price point of the new FF camera is very sharp. Add to that a PPE show special for the 645Z $6999.95---$1500.00 discount. And there's more: Complete 645Z starter kit for $15,995.00 . What's included:
  • 645Z body
  • 55 f.28
  • 28-45 f4.5
  • 90 f2.8
  • extra battery
  • 2 32gb cards
  • Ricoh Advantage Platinum, with extended warranty for the camera and the 3 lenses
  • High performance resin case with custom cutout foam
By my calculations, that's about $3500.00 off, a very decent deal (which I'm posting as a separate thread). I think this deal may be coming to dealers as well this coming year. Ricoh plans a multi city dealer tour in North America with this kit and in-store presentations. The dealers would be able to take these kits on for terms only---not have to pay up-front for 6 months or a year. Already one dealer in California has done this and sold the first medium format gear they've ever sold.

10-25-2015, 02:10 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
The dealers would be able to take these kits on for terms only---not have to pay up-front for 6 months or a year.
That's a big breakthrough, given the history over the last decade. And the FF price point and these MF price points are shocking.

Seems they do have a Plan. I hope people are happy.
10-25-2015, 02:48 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Seems they do have a Plan. I hope people are happy.
I know I am

But I also know haters will hate....
10-25-2015, 04:00 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Yes, this is the impression I was getting listening at the booth at PhotoPlus Expo

Agreed---the guy who was talking to me explicitly identified the "race to the bottom" of the market as something Pentax would not pursue.

That said, the projected price point of the new FF camera is very sharp. Add to that a PPE show special for the 645Z $6999.95---$1500.00 discount. And there's more: Complete 645Z starter kit for $15,995.00 . What's included:
  • 645Z body
  • 55 f.28
  • 28-45 f4.5
  • 90 f2.8
  • extra battery
  • 2 32gb cards
  • Ricoh Advantage Platinum, with extended warranty for the camera and the 3 lenses
  • High performance resin case with custom cutout foam
By my calculations, that's about $3500.00 off, a very decent deal (which I'm posting as a separate thread). I think this deal may be coming to dealers as well this coming year. Ricoh plans a multi city dealer tour in North America with this kit and in-store presentations. The dealers would be able to take these kits on for terms only---not have to pay up-front for 6 months or a year. Already one dealer in California has done this and sold the first medium format gear they've ever sold.
This is a good way to growing your dealership. In retail money for inventory is hard to get and you don't want to put it in a basket that you don't know how it will turn around. For Ricoh this means having a bigger inventory on their balance that is still not sold.
10-25-2015, 06:34 PM   #23
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I guess no mention of a new 45-80 and/or 80-160. Then no LS. I wish I could have gone just to find out more about new Z lenses.

Thanks TEx for the info.

10-25-2015, 11:05 PM   #24
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Thanks for the taking the time to write up the report.
Some interesting news in there.

Cheers
10-25-2015, 11:32 PM   #25
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Thanks for that.

I'm beyond happy with the IQ from 645z, but well aware if it didn't sell well I'd end up having to shift to another MF system in time. Glad to hear it's selling.
10-26-2015, 01:45 AM   #26
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Thanks for the OP regarding everything that was mentioned. I am wondering if any new 645 lenses were mentioned? We are really hurting for some more DFA lenses………Hello? Ricoh? Four lenses in five years , really? Have you seen the lenses that Leica S has already? Don't make a second medium format body, make some L E N S E S !
10-26-2015, 05:37 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
He claimed MSRP would be about $2400, street around $1900. That is a very sharp price point. 36mp, with some special features
that's impressive, 1900$ and 36Mp, it'll compete really well with other brands ^^ it must be equally good as the D810 with better ergonomic (Pentax's strength) !
10-26-2015, 11:34 AM   #28
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Only 36 MP pretty much kills my interest in the FF camera.
10-26-2015, 11:41 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by rfkiii Quote
Only 36 MP pretty much kills my interest in the FF camera.
Really. I have a K3, and the RAW file size is big enough there. I know photographers who have D810 and basically don't shoot with full res unless the shot demands it because of the big file sizes. I end up wondering to myself - do I really need 36MP? I have read and know all the arguments for and against.

With what is currently on the market -- if you want 35mm and more than 36MP that leads you to the Sony a7RII or the Canon 5DR. 2 very different camera's - but not a wide range of choice.

Also, just have a read of what Ming Thein writes about lens selection on his D800's. To use 36 MP well you will need top notch lenses. It is all about the total imaging chain, with the weakest point being the limitation. So, if you actually need more that 36MP then you are going to need top notch lenses, a really good tripod, and great shot discipline. All good challenges
10-26-2015, 01:10 PM   #30
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The major reason for taking the 42MP sensor over the 36 is to advance your video capabilities, as far as I can see. As the new Pentax body is aimed at the stills photographer and, if the OP's report is accurate, providing the stills photographer with a very good value-for-money camera, including the more costly 42MP sensor would have increased the price without significantly increasing its appeal to the target market.

As for investing in a small, shrinking part of the market, that may be true in the short term (and Pentax seems to be making money for Ricoh with small production runs) but it may not be so a little further out. None of us here has any research that would inform us about future markets – all we see is the past, which is notoriously unreliable as a guide to the future, in these matters.
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