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01-13-2016, 03:04 AM   #136
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Very, very difficult issue when laws aimed at wrongdoers and the unskilled also affect legitimate/proficient users.

01-13-2016, 03:19 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
. 'Defense' doesn't mean 'gun.'
The problem seems to be that for many US citizens defence does mean gun whereas in the UK a shooting incident will make the national news.
01-13-2016, 06:56 AM   #138
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Commonwealth of Virginia rule on self defense (which applies in robberies, the taking of personal property from the person of another by means of threats, force, or intimidation): if you have a reasonably held, good faith belief, based on objective fact, that you or another innocent person are faced with the threat of imminent (or immediate) serious bodily harm, then you may use whatever degree of force (without retreating) that may be reasonable under the circumstances, up to and including deadly force, to quell that threat. Open carry of firearms is constitutionally guaranteed and concealed carry permits must be issued without statement of reason to anyone who is not legally ineligible (crazy, illegal, felons,etc).

Or you could cross the Potomac to Prince George's County, Maryland, where they have really strict gun control. Every morning on the Washington TV news, there are several reports of deaths and injuries from criminal violence in P.G. Co. Gun Control is how the law enforcement community guarantees full employment (as told to me by my late uncle, a former chief of police). As John Mortimer said in "Rumpole of the Bailey", "crime is a growth industry". More crime means more work for lawyers, judges, court reporters, bailiffs, cops, and clerks. And if you take away the right of law-abiding socially-responsible citizens to defend themselves, their homes and their families, there will be more crime and more fear, hence more work for empire building security services.
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01-13-2016, 07:04 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
Commonwealth of Virginia rule on self defense (which applies in robberies, the taking of personal property from the person of another by means of threats, force, or intimidation): if you have a reasonably held, good faith belief, based on objective fact, that you or another innocent person are faced with the threat of imminent (or immediate) serious bodily harm, then you may use whatever degree of force (without retreating) that may be reasonable under the circumstances, up to and including deadly force, to quell that threat. Open carry of firearms is constitutionally guaranteed and concealed carry permits must be issued without statement of reason to anyone who is not legally ineligible (crazy, illegal, felons,etc).

Or you could cross the Potomac to Prince George's County, Maryland, where they have really strict gun control. Every morning on the Washington TV news, there are several reports of deaths and injuries from criminal violence in P.G. Co. Gun Control is how the law enforcement community guarantees full employment (as told to me by my late uncle, a former chief of police). As John Mortimer said in "Rumpole of the Bailey", "crime is a growth industry". More crime means more work for lawyers, judges, court reporters, bailiffs, cops, and clerks. And if you take away the right of law-abiding socially-responsible citizens to defend themselves, their homes and their families, there will be more crime and more fear, hence more work for empire building security services.
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Good essay on some of the stuff being talked about here: The riddle of the gun

01-13-2016, 07:14 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by mohb Quote
The problem seems to be that for many US citizens defence does mean gun whereas in the UK a shooting incident will make the national news.
The problem is that it's the use of the gun that makes the news, not the criminal violence - statistics I've seen show that the level of lethal violence didn't go down when the UK confiscated the firearms, it's now done with pipes and knives, and the character of the victims has changed, as now the otherwise defenseless are more likely to be attacked.
01-13-2016, 07:57 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I find it difficult to believe you don't see the pro gun supporters debating against the anti gun supporters filled in this thread. 'Defense' doesn't mean 'gun.' However, the dialog, in this thread, has often been pro gun vs anti gun in relation to laws and violence at a national level.
I see a discussion in the context of the original post that has been about all aspects of being robbed by various means as well as self defense by various means. If you have a problem with the thread as it is, move along. In some cases, whether in the woods or at home, self defense of ones self or family may involve a gun. In 1775 it may have involved a sword. At the end of the day, its a personal choice just like following this thread.
01-13-2016, 10:30 AM - 1 Like   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlh Quote
Commonwealth of Virginia rule on self defense (which applies in robberies, the taking of personal property from the person of another by means of threats, force, or intimidation): if you have a reasonably held, good faith belief, based on objective fact, that you or another innocent person are faced with the threat of imminent (or immediate) serious bodily harm, then you may use whatever degree of force ... SNIPPED FOR BREVITY ... Or you could cross the Potomac to Prince George's County, Maryland, where they have really strict gun control. ... SNIP
Some people think the difference in the murder rate is due to gun laws. That's an over-simplified view and ignores the fact that some cities with strict gun laws are the safest in the USA, and others with similarly strict laws are dangerous.

Prince George County is sandwiched between Baltimore and DC. Those 2 cities have major crime, drug, poverty, and policing issues that spill into surrounding suburbs. DC's murder rate in 2014 was 15.9 (per 100,000 people). Baltimore was 33.8.

Virginia Beach, the largest city in Virginia, had a much lower rate of 3.8.

San Diego comes in at 2.3 and New York City 3.9; neither has a high per capita murder rate despite being in states with strict gun laws. Murder-wise, San Diego is the safest large (population 1+ million) US city despite. NYC and Virginia Beach have murder rates that come in close to each other despite very different gun laws.

Buffalo, NY hits 23.2, nearly 6 times higher than New York City, yet has similar gun laws.

Texas is interesting. There's less variance between the large cities. Houston, San Antonio, and Dallas have rates of 10.9, 7.2, and 9.1. Texas has pretty free gun laws (unless those cities have additional laws I'm unaware of). Why do large Texas cities have approximately double the murder rate of New York City? Why are Texas cities so much safer than Buffalo, NY? Clearly, gun laws are not the main factor.

Here's an easily sorted list so interested readers can look at things by state, population, murder rate, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_%282014%29
01-13-2016, 10:53 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Some people think the difference in the murder rate is due to gun laws. That's an over-simplified view and ignores the fact that some cities with strict gun laws are the safest in the USA, and others with similarly strict laws are dangerous.

Prince George County is sandwiched between Baltimore and DC. Those 2 cities have major crime, drug, poverty, and policing issues that spill into surrounding suburbs. DC's murder rate in 2014 was 15.9 (per 100,000 people). Baltimore was 33.8.

Virginia Beach, the largest city in Virginia, had a much lower rate of 3.8.

San Diego comes in at 2.3 and New York City 3.9; neither has a high per capita murder rate despite being in states with strict gun laws. Murder-wise, San Diego is the safest large (population 1+ million) US city despite. NYC and Virginia Beach have murder rates that come in close to each other despite very different gun laws.

Buffalo, NY hits 23.2, nearly 6 times higher than New York City, yet has similar gun laws.

Texas is interesting. There's less variance between the large cities. Houston, San Antonio, and Dallas have rates of 10.9, 7.2, and 9.1. Texas has pretty free gun laws (unless those cities have additional laws I'm unaware of). Why do large Texas cities have approximately double the murder rate of New York City? Why are Texas cities so much safer than Buffalo, NY? Clearly, gun laws are not the main factor.

Here's an easily sorted list so interested readers can look at things by state, population, murder rate, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_%282014%29
Or they can go to the FBI site and look at the actual violent crime data. Go to the metro areas and look at robberies. That is what this thread is about, being robbed of camera gear. You are pushing this discussion towards the political spectrum with the gun control discussion. Regarding TX, keep in mind that Houston and Austin are politically deceptive. If this thread becomes this discussion other than "what would one do in the face of being robbed of camera gear," it will get locked.

Remember, robbery is the taking of something from an actual person as opposed to a burglary.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s...tables/table-6


FBI UCR statistics are all here:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s...cement/robbery

01-13-2016, 10:59 AM - 3 Likes   #144
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This has pretty much been flogged and risks becoming too political at this point. At the end of they day people need maintain situational awareness in general. This includes safety issues such as getting hit by traffic/falling etc. when photographing things. Regardless of one's disposition on how to deal with a robbery of one's gear, that is a personal decision that has to be made in real time based on circumstances. These things are considered violent crimes for a reason.


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