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01-10-2016, 01:33 PM - 1 Like   #31
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My dog brag pic of Moe 30" 145lb Black Russian Terrier. This is the Russian military dog

---------- Post added 01-10-2016 at 04:41 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Wingincamera Quote
I have read all the post in this thread, lots of opinions and reasons for them. For me, as a retired LEO, I am use to always conceal carry. I am not so much worried about lost of property, I will not give someone capital punishment for a crime if caught & convicted will probably receive only 30 days in jail & probation. But I am concerned about my personal safety or safety of others. Personal property is different, I have good insurance. I will take my Goldwing rig out and leave it at trail heads and be a mile away, I didn't purchase it to be left in the garage, again I have insurance.
I've thought about it and feel I won't hesitate to use deadly force to stop an attacker. Of course my equipment is probably on my body or next to me, so if some bad guy is threatening me I probably won't wait to see if they just want my stuff, or give me knife in the gut before taking my stuff. I am now 70 years old and will not do well in a physical confrontation. Always be aware of your surroundings and not be surprised.
There are times when I am alone after dark or before sunrise in parts of the city that require being constant aware of what's around you. Pepper spray is a good alternative, but don't depend on it to stop anyone. Someone who has been sprayed a few times with pepper spray learns to function through it.
Hi Wingman
I am former LEO myself and share your views.

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Last edited by MikeD; 01-10-2016 at 01:36 PM. Reason: fix
01-10-2016, 02:02 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wingincamera Quote
Pepper spray is a good alternative, but don't depend on it to stop anyone. Someone who has been sprayed a few times with pepper spray learns to function through it.
As our police have discovered, it may have no effect on someone high on ice or similar.
01-10-2016, 02:10 PM   #33

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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Don't let one post and a crazy reply paint a picture. Outside the largest cities (where gun control is the strictest) America is quite safe. Holland is probably riskier.

Of course it helps to stay out of certain areas but that's been true for the entire history of hominids.
Gun control is a red herring. Cities with similar laws have widely varying murder rates.

All big cities aren't dangerous. New York City has 8 million residents (the metro area with suburbs is around 20 million) and many crimes that make headlines, but the per capita rate is much lower than many people think.

Lock your car and leave gear out of sight. That dramatically reduces your theft risk wherever you are.
01-10-2016, 03:18 PM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
As our police have discovered, it may have no effect on someone high on ice or similar.
Clackers is right about this. Some times even someone really drunk will not be effected as much, but most feel it big time. Wind can be an issue as well as you need to hit them in the face for maximum effect. Another issue is that there are different levels of capsicum in sprays some are very potent some not so much it depends on the brand.

---------- Post added 01-10-2016 at 06:24 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bm75 Quote
Everywhere in Europe carrying a gun/knife and any sort of object usable for kill or using violence is strictly prohibited. This applies also to tools (i.e.: an hammer/a cutter) if you carry it not during your professional activity (for what there're intended to). Doing that equals to a straight condamn in a trial.
You have to fear the man behind the gun, not the gun itself. Few people are prepared/experienced to face a high risk situation when someone is pointing a gun towards you (and eventual reaction as offended person). It's a common problem also for professionals of security.
Please, don't carry around guns. For yours and other's safety.
Wise words coming from the country who gave us La Cosa Nostra and as a former law enforcement officer that is exactly WHY I carry a gun for mine and others safety

01-10-2016, 04:23 PM   #35

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It's refreshing to be part of a site that doesn't have a picture of a big handgun within 4 posts when discussing this issue. Too many have posts saying that though theft isn't a capital offence in their country, they will make it one, being judge jury and executioner.

i try and carry gear in as subtle a way as I can (though this is tricky with a 645Z, which was why I went to El Salvador with just a mobile phone and a Panasonic compact...
01-10-2016, 04:25 PM - 1 Like   #36
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Shooting someone with a gun can cause all kinds of liability problems not to mention if you actually kill the individual. Pepper spray usually is used in close situations. Bear spray is much better since the range is substantially longer. Cabela's or Bass ProShop will have the bear spray. In any event, it is best to give up the equipment and file a claim with your insurance agent. If you are not a professional photographer, then your homeowners insurance policy will suffice. Read the small print, you will be subject to a deductible. Also there may be a limit as to the amount of coverage for your photography equipment. As an option get a Personal Lines floater for all of your equipment. If you are a commercial photographer, then your agent can get you a Commercial Lines floater.

01-10-2016, 05:40 PM   #37

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QuoteOriginally posted by cosmonaut Quote
My keys were in the ignition, windows down and gear in the back seat.
WHY do you keep your car keys in the ignition of your car when you are not operating said car?

Does your insurance even cover theft of your car in that manner?
01-10-2016, 05:59 PM   #38
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In Canada I am more likely to be personally robbed by someone with a knife than a gun. Guns laws and all that, it's difficult enough to get a gun that unless you're organized crime you're not toting a handgun (In which case, petty theft? Not on their priority list, sorry), and it's very unlikely that someone will try and rob you with a long rifle.

It's actually far far more likely that your car will be stolen with gear in it, or your home invaded while you're not there; ie, at the point when having or not having a gun is a totally moot point. Case in point; My Friend's gear that was stolen before Christmas. No gun would have stopped that, he wasn't there.

Write down your Serial Numbers, register them, take some pictures of your gear, and post and email them to yourself. Keep a record. Get the proper insurance. Then when your stuff is stolen, you can be reimbursed. More cost effective than getting a gun.

Also less likely to get you shot. If they're robbing you and already have a knife or gun on you, you're not getting that thing out before they end you. Don't be stupid, your gear isn't worth your Life.

Also, a note; At least up here, if you leave the keys in the ignition, or they have possession of the keys, it can be considered A Fraudulent claim made for insurance purposes, which leads to a ton of court battle. Basically, the reasoning is that if they have possession of the keys, for all they know you handed them to the guy. Don't do that. Insurance will basically never cover that without a court battle.

01-10-2016, 08:15 PM - 3 Likes   #39
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I think it might be better to have your gear insured than defend it with a gun at risk of someones (maybe your own) death. Just saying.

I have insurance but more for theft from a car or breakage than for theft from my person. When I am using it I am usually in landscape locations at uncivilized hours of the day with hardly anyone about if any so I don't feel at risk at all. My main concern is dropping the damn thing and breaking it.
01-10-2016, 10:27 PM - 2 Likes   #40
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If someone wanted to rob me I wouldn't want to escalate it with a gun. But there aren't many people where I shoot (photos) most of the time. I agree insurance sounds better.
01-11-2016, 03:18 AM   #41
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Wise words coming from the country who gave us La Cosa Nostra ;) and as a former law enforcement officer that is exactly WHY I carry a gun for mine and others safety

Hey guys....this sounds a little bit offensive! the old motto ' Italy is mafia-pizza-spaghetti-mandolino' is still in use?? Obviously I'm sorry that the name of my country is linked to a criminal organization.We are still fighting that criminal organization and every day many people risk their life or die in the fight. Please serch the web for "Falcone" and "Borsellino" , those judges being killed by Cosa Nostra. That's crime, not Italy or my person. I dislike being labeled in association with any sort of criminal organization. Please don't do it.

You have my unconditioned respect for your position of former LEO and everyone has to thank police for it's activity . You're a professional of the public security: that is good and for sure you've been practised and experienced in jour job so it's a good thing you have a gun and carry it for yours and other's safety.You know how to face high risk situations and You're trained to do that. In Italy it's the same for professionals.

the problem here is for common people. If you give a gun for defence to an unexperienced, untrained person, the risk for casualties raise. And the risk that these guns would be stolen raises too. Police agents are psicologically and technically trained to recognize different levels of risk and offense so consequently react using the reasonable and responsible force as defense(deadly force as the last). Not so is common people: so someone using gun for defense would be deadly shot and his gun stolen. Common people aren't able to recognize different kind of offenders (the skilled crminals or those stupid, drug or drunk people doing the wrong bad thing in the wrong bad way- more dangerous ones with a gun in their hand).
I don't have any intent to discuss what's the best in your country: that's a different law sistem . Here you cannot preventive use the gun. In Italy every deadly shooting involves the word MURDER written in public inquiry papers, and if I were the shooter (for defense), I would have to defend myself tring not to be judged as an offender and imprisoned due to excess of defense causing death of an individual (no matter if it's a criminal). That it's worth a camera? For sure not. That's worth my life.
Best regards. Matteo
01-11-2016, 03:25 AM - 1 Like   #42

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Should we be afraid of paranoid gun toting/knife wielding photographers?
01-11-2016, 03:32 AM   #43
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01-11-2016, 06:06 AM   #44
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Having been attacked more than once while carrying camera equipment I can speak that carrying a weapon is just as much of a hazard to you, as it is to your attacker. Carrying weapons, even if they are concealed make subtle but noticeable differences in behavior patters that would be enough for a clever thief to notice**. So I'm very much against carrying weapons myself, because it is much easier (and much more satisfying, I might add) to use your attackers weapon against them**. Though on long outdoor trips I do keep a 12" hand forged Nepalese kukri on hand for utilitarian purposes.

I also have excellent insurance coverage, which is great when faced with the prospect of a visit from a random catbuglar***.

*I operate on the principle that If I can notice it, anyone with proper training and good observational skills can.

**which is actually what I did last time I was assaulted. I had the minor satisfaction of knowing the two men spent more time recovering in hospital than I did. And my sister who is a lawyer, who saw to it personally that they spent at least 6 months time in jail.

***Catburglar,n: A candid man of affairs - Devils dictionary.

Last edited by Digitalis; 01-11-2016 at 07:49 PM.
01-11-2016, 06:17 AM   #45
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For self protection, when threatend I woge into this:

Dame Noel...?
by Noel Leahy, on Flickr

or sometimes this (if the threat is a bit of a pussy)

Dog faced.jpg
by Noel Leahy, on Flickr

Worked every time!
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