[luftfluss]

Animal attack is unlikely too but it has crossed my mind on occasion.
A sturdy monopod might be effective and worth sacrificing in this event.

Chris

My concern is rabid animals. There are enough of them in Sussex County to warrant caution.

---------- Post added 01-11-16 at 07:24 PM ----------

San Francisco used to seem safe when I visited but it's been 15 years since my last trip. Was I naïve or have things changed that much?

NYC, meanwhile, has become much safer. I wonder what factors caused 2 cities to diverge so much.

Looking at the data provided by city-data dot com, there is a much higher rate of theft-related crime in SF than in NYC over the last dozen or so years.

[mikeSF]

San Francisco used to seem safe when I visited but it's been 15 years since my last trip. Was I naïve or have things changed that much?

NYC, meanwhile, has become much safer. I wonder what factors caused 2 cities to diverge so much.

SF has changed drastically. I used to go anywhere, usually at night to shoot pictures without ever being worried about my personal security. These days, I am constantly scanning the crowds and planning for a response.

The SFPD officers who arrived on scene said there are some organized fencing rings in SF and that camera gear, both from tourists and locals are very easy to turn over. Add to that the very crowded usual tourist locations (Pier 39, Union Square, waterfront, Alamo Square, Chinatown, etc.), and you have an endless flow of potential targets.

I think my best response to thwart a would be robber might be to yell, "you can't resell it, it's a Pentax"...haha

[MikeD]

This is not meant to be a political post about gun control but a post about your fear of being robbed or hurt. Is it an issue when you go out shooting? Are you scared of losing your gear or being robbed or thought you were going to be robbed? Do you protect yourself, don't go by yourself? What? I know some of you have been to the areas I have been and realize it's a far cry from city streets. I mean your carrying $10,000 around your neck. You have to think about it, right?

I think maybe all of us have gotten away from your original question.
1. am I scared of losing my gear- only when I'm on a trip and would miss out on so many photo ops
2. Have I ever thought I was going to be robbed or do I fear being robbed- no and no. If things seem wrong to me I move on, I don't walk down dark alleys unless I have a reason.
3. I do think about the possibility of theft- YES and do what I can to minimize the chances- first off I never leave my keys in the car. Anything of value goes in the trunk or is covered and out of view.
4. My advice if you catch someone in the act depends on what the situation. First off if you have your phone get pictures of them and their vehicle (if you can) and call 911. Then depending on circumstance there are several different ways you can try to handle it. A. run them off by yelling at them from a distance or blasting an air horn thieves don't like to call attn. to themselves. B. If they ignore you and keep at it then you have some decisions to make- stay where you are or move toward them and make a lot of noise. This depends on what you think their capabilities are what your capabilities are.
Are they armed yes, no, maybe?, are you armed?. There are so many variations on this theme that books have been written about it. I know one poster said your best odds are just to give them your stuff, if confronted with a weapon this is a 50/50 proposition, if they don't have a weapon can you take them out?. Never let them move you to someplace else like into a car of off the trail etc. all they are trying to do is make it easier to kill you this goes double for women. In this case run or fight like hell. If they have a knife it's best not to try to fight them unless you are really well trained (plan on getting cut). If they have a gun run since handguns are really hard to hit anything with unless at very close range. I'll stop here since I could go on for way too long.
My background- former LEO, long time 4th degree martial arts inst. in the art from which the Rangers and Seals hand to hand was developed from, what they are taught is a distilled down to basics, Navy Corpsman during Viet Nam.

[mikeSF]

My concern is rabid animals. There are enough of them in Sussex County to warrant caution.

---------- Post added 01-11-16 at 07:24 PM ----------



Looking at the data provided by city-data dot com, there is a much higher rate of theft-related crime in SF than in NYC over the last dozen or so years.

scary and not surprising given the recent uptick

[MikeD]

Yet the people sticking a knife or gun in one's face would advocate such behavior. That is the issue. And if they have aimed a lethal weapon at you, especially in an aggressive means such as potential robbery, you should assume they mean to use it.

Of course they would which is why I carry both, Agreed 100%. To all please keep in mind at close range a knife is more dangerous than a gun unless you already have the gun out and pointed at the assailant. It has been proven over and over than a person highly trained in the use of a gun must be "at least 21 feet" from a knife assailant if his gun is still in his holster or he won't get a shot off before he gets cut.

[ChrisPlatt]

With one of these not only will your gear be destroyed but you'll likely get stabbed and dragged across the pavement:
http://www.pacsafe.com/carrysafe-100-camera-strap.html

Chris

[mee]

Weapons are brandished far more frequently than they are used. If someone was shot or stabbed every time someone waved a gun or knife, the obscenely high murder rate in the USA would be higher.

Blanket assumptions don't work. If there's already a weapon pointed at you and you're outnumbered, giving up may very well be safer than fighting.

Haha yet you roll right into an assumption -- '...may very well..' -- and it also may very well NOT. If I think someone is likely to kill me (and thus me not be able to prosecute them - a dead man tells no tales), I will take my chances at protecting myself. This happens way more than you'd probably imagine.. you give your wallet, then then shoot you anyways.

Actually it happened to someone in my neighborhood... victim was abducted at gunpoint entering his home, and told to drive to his bank to take out all of his money, the victim at the ATM got away, the assailant chased him down, in the victims stolen car, shooting at him multiple times (bad shot missed), then circled around the area some time looking for him while the victim hid (actually ended up on the back door of someone who greeted him with the barrel end of a shotgun thinking HE was a burglar until cops arrived and they sorted it out). You have to realize someone willing to stick a lethal weapon in your face is not thinking straight.. and your life means very very little to them. That guy likely would have been dead had he not ran... it was clear the attacker was not going to spare him.

Interestingly, a near identical attack happened just a couple weeks later by someone matching the description of the first attack, this time the attacker chose the wrong target (off duty cop with CCW) and this attacker is now no longer able to wave guns, abduct, and shoot at people anymore...

[ChrisPlatt]

I have conceived the ultimate defense against any attacker, human or otherwise:
I will whip out a photo album or my slide projector and render them senseless!

Chris

[Digitalis]

A long time ago there was a DPR thread on this topic, and this was one of my favorite responses:

The old, “I am being stalked by a serial killer chestnut, eh? Well in the absence of a gun, knife, sword, tactical nuclear weapon or any other reasonable means of self defence; I recommend the, “I’m crazier than you ploy. “

The secret to the success of this ploy lies in the preparation. All that is needed is a bottle of tomato ketchup( or stage blood), a pack of antacid tablets and a rubber knife of the long bladed kitchen variety.

When on location you feel that an attack from a shifty looking passerby is imminent, swiftly crouch down and smear the contents of the bottle of tomato ketchup over your hands, face and the blade of the rubber knife.

Next, place 5 or so of antacid tablets in your mouth and chew vigorously, and try not to swallow. When this is done leap up, brandishing the ketchup laden rubber knife high in the air and scream in a hysterical voice, “Oh, mother the blood, the blood.” This causes the pre masticated antacid tablets to be expelled explosively from ones mouth, an effect not dissimilar to that of a rabid dog.

Expert practitioners of this method manage to throw in a violent head/eye twitch and a high pitched giggle at this point to complete the effect but practise is required and I recommend you keep it simple. However, the effect on passersby is simply astonishing and this ploy should not in densely crowded areas as fatalities may occur in the ensuing pandemonium.

Any self respecting homicidal maniac will immediately realise he has been upstaged and vacate the area at once. On a photographic note; and we are a photographic forum after all, this ploy lends itself rather nicely to those not to be missed but hard to get deserted urban landscapes scenes we all love and admire.

This ploy is not without its negative aspects, however, and once this ploy is used the will never have any friends, your partner and children will leave you and expect regular visits from a police physiatrist but I am sure you will agree that it is a small price to pay when it comes to personal safety whilst pursuing your hobby.

[paulvzo]

This David Bowie answer to a Proust questionnaire seems like it belongs in this thread somewhere:

Q: What do you regard as the lowest depth of misery? A: Living in fear.

...and I agree!

Amen!

I refuse to. I'm not some macho dude, but I refuse to live in fear of "what may happen." In most of my living situations I only locked doors at night or when away. I'm now in a shared living situation; the guy is from Brooklyn, and he can't keep enough dead bolts flipped.

---------- Post added 01-11-16 at 09:04 PM ----------

I don't think anyone here would advocate shooting or cutting someone over a camera. It is not worth the hassle with lawsuits etc. let alone time involved just straightening things out. Then again if someone comes up and demands my camera I will not just hand it over nor will I look the other way if someone is trying to break into my car. My last resort would be to shoot someone. However if they attack me to get what they want then I will defend myself.

I read that as quite contradictory. You will, you won't.

[redrockcoulee]

Medium format solution, Holgas and Dianas or home made pinhole cameras. Or throw a Fuji GX680 at them, that would knock down five or six.

[p38arover]

WHY do you keep your car keys in the ignition of your car when you are not operating said car?

In Australia, leaving your keys in the ignition of an unattended car or leaving it unlocked when one is more than 3 metres (10ft) from the car will earn you a fine.

[Digitalis]

Medium format solution, Holgas and Dianas or home made pinhole cameras. Or throw a Fuji GX680 at them, that would knock down five or six.

A Pentax 67II with an SMC67-M* 800mm f/6.7ED [IF] could take out twice as many.. and still be in perfect operation condition.

[DeadJohn]

In very rough terms, the victim is shot during 1 in 10 armed robberies. If you are being robbed at gunpoint you have to make a quick decision: is this a 9/10 chance that the criminal won't shoot or the 1/10? If you think it's the 1/10 then fight back.

[algrove]

Just carry a P&S instead of a nice 645Z and lenses. Of course it's no fun, but another alternative.