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01-24-2016, 04:47 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
Perhaps you should propose to the site admin that we have a poll on the creation of a gallery, use of the images thread or people being free to post threads with single images? Then we can know a) what is possible on the site and b) what people want of the available options.

---------- Post added 01-24-16 at 10:38 PM ----------

While I can see your argument, assuming we stay with the status quo, I ask you to consider the possibility (just as consistent with the facts as we currently know them as your proposed hypotheses) that in fact people may prefer the status quo to people having separate image threads and that doing that within the current site might spoil the balance of the site for others, unless a gallery or something similar is created.
Part 1: Yes, perhaps I could do so; let me think about it. By the way, we do know what is possible on the site: there is no rule against posting single image threads that I know of.

Part 2: In this case, I can in turn ask you to consider the possibility that, except for you and itshimitis, and perhaps a couple more people who answered on a previous thread, everyone else is fine with the status quo of most people posting in the thread, some eccentric guys posting out of it, and don't see much harm in that. Silent majority and all that working both ways, eh?


Last edited by The Madshutter; 01-24-2016 at 05:00 AM.
01-24-2016, 04:50 AM   #17
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I think I shall wait for guidance on this point from the site admins before posting any more images, because I am not happy about posting within the images thread while others have their images in individual threads and thus getting more focus upon them. I am similarly unwilling to post individual image threads myself whilst others have not been encouraged to do so and in a situation where, if they did, the site would get cluttered. If those are the only options, I prefer to stand aside and not post here at all.

Last edited by Ed Hurst; 01-24-2016 at 04:58 AM.
01-24-2016, 05:02 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
While I can see your argument, assuming we stay with the status quo, I ask you to consider the possibility (just as consistent with the facts as we currently know them as your proposed hypotheses) that in fact people may prefer the status quo to people having separate image threads and that doing that within the current site might spoil the balance of the site for others, unless a gallery or something similar is created.
I'll jump in here to make a couple of comments. I do sympathize with Madshutter's desire to curate the image thread. The randomness of the other medium format pictures thread actually is a bit of a problem in that way. It's one reason I have no interest in group shows anymore for my artworks in any media, unless it's actually curated and the curator is very tight with the selection. Having curated more than a score of exhinbitions since the 1980's, I obviously favor careful curation from that angle as well. What I would say in favor of the other photo posting thread, is that I think it is understood to be less than entirely "serious"---images that are posted are often simply examples of a particular lenses performance, or a shot from the past day, a flash rendering, & etc. Many if not all of the posters have their own galleries on image hosting services at least, or even their own websites, especially the commercial shooters. So, in this way its informality has a distinct appeal, very photo club, and more about sharing with one another.

OTOH, as someone who runs a website with a forum (The LightZone Project), everyone starting their own threads for individual selections also potentially poses an enormous problem, unless you are as big as DPR. Really, the galleries option is the best one---not only to better sort the images and makers, but also that a gallery module would allow other flexibilities, such as choice of background, potentially, or thumbnail type and position. This is an option I hope to provide for my membership this year.

Last edited by texandrews; 01-24-2016 at 05:08 AM. Reason: additions
01-24-2016, 05:05 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
I'll jump in here to make a couple of comments. I do sympathize with Madshutter's desire to curate the image thread. The randomness of the other medium format pictures thread actually is a bit of a problem in that way. It's one reason I have no interest in group shows anymore for my artworks in any media, unless it's actually curated and the curator is very tight with the selection. Having curated more than a score of exhinbitions since the 1980's, I obviously favor careful curation from that angle as well.

OTOH, as someone who runs a website with a forum (The LightZone Project), everyone starting their own threads for individual selections also potentially poses an enormous problem, unless you are as big as DPR. Really, the galleries option is the best one---not only to better sort the images and makers, but also that a gallery module would allow other flexibilities, such as choice of background, potentially, or thumbnail type and position. This is an option I hope to provide for my membership this year.
Second that - a "galleries" section, perhaps divided by genre, would be easy enough to implement within the forum's framework, leave the "technical" forum for technical questions, and solve the problem elegantly and quickly enough probably to everyone's satisfaction.

01-24-2016, 05:09 AM   #20
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I can see merit in that. I think the question still remains, though, of what users should do within the current site arrangement if such a change is not made.
01-24-2016, 05:15 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
I can see merit in that. I think the question still remains, though, of what users should do within the current site arrangement if such a change is not made.
Well, of course I cannot speak for anyone else; I know what I will do, though - I will do what I think is best without breaking the current site rules, hoping that a better solution will be implemented if the owner finds it necessary and useful.
01-24-2016, 05:18 AM   #22
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given that you are acting quite differently from almost everyone else here, you're very sure aren't you?
01-24-2016, 05:29 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
given that you are acting quite differently from almost everyone else here, you're very sure aren't you?
Come on Ed, no need to get personal now. I simply do what I think is right and best, without breaking any forum rule that I know of. While I understand your point, I gave ample and logical explanation for the reason why I do what I do; understanding your point doesn't mean that I have to change my ways. I think that, until some new elements come into play, this is all I have to say on this matter; I am sorry that my solution to this conundrum doesn't please you, but I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree then. Thank you again for what has been, until now, a very pleasant and I think constructive discussion. Best,

Vieri

01-24-2016, 06:49 AM   #24
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I'm not being personal here Vieri, but there's something 'Non Ti preoccupare...non c' problemo' about your responses. I lived in Italy for 6 months and am used to this response. It's kind of "I hear you, but I'm not listening, and I'm going to carry on doing what I do because I want to."

Like I said before in the other thread, I learned very quickly what the culture was in this forum, so I acquiesced into it. The gallery in this forum is that gallery thread as it stands. Would a gallery section in this forum help? Sure! I think it would be a great addition to the forum. I know the owners of this forum did start a new forum a few years ago aimed at all users of all brands, and I did join it, but forgot my password and user name. It didn't seem widely used. It did have a gallery section.

I would hate to see Ed not posting images, and I sincerely hope that I'm not a catalyst in this, as that would be a huge loss to this forum. There are a number of great photographers in that medium format photos thread, who if they decided to start their own individual photo threads would soon take over this section of the forum. They haven't done so thus far, and I don't intend to do so either. I just don't understand why you don't want to be in the company of the other photographers in that thread. In December you said that you didn't even look at the photos in that thread, and you don't participate a massive amount outside of your own photo threads. 80% of your posts are your photo threads. This makes you appear as if you feel too good for the main thread. You are a good photographer and your images are between good and fantastic (i'm not sure how many of mine make it to good standard) but it doesn't sit easy you starting photo threads of your own when everyone else does so within a central thread.

To be clear, I wasn't accusing you of spamming - if I felt you were, I would have reported it, which I have not done. Many photographers use forums to increase their reach and get their work seen. And that's fine, and links in signatures help drive traffic a little I'm sure. But why should yours be so special that they are in threads of their own when others put their images within the main thread? There are photographers within the pictures thread that are every bit as good as you. Ed is one of them.

Forums aren't just about the written rules.
01-24-2016, 07:41 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
I'm not being personal here Vieri, but there's something 'Non Ti preoccupare...non c' problemo' about your responses. I lived in Italy for 6 months and am used to this response. It's kind of "I hear you, but I'm not listening, and I'm going to carry on doing what I do because I want to."

Like I said before in the other thread, I learned very quickly what the culture was in this forum, so I acquiesced into it. The gallery in this forum is that gallery thread as it stands. Would a gallery section in this forum help? Sure! I think it would be a great addition to the forum. I know the owners of this forum did start a new forum a few years ago aimed at all users of all brands, and I did join it, but forgot my password and user name. It didn't seem widely used. It did have a gallery section.

I would hate to see Ed not posting images, and I sincerely hope that I'm not a catalyst in this, as that would be a huge loss to this forum. There are a number of great photographers in that medium format photos thread, who if they decided to start their own individual photo threads would soon take over this section of the forum. They haven't done so thus far, and I don't intend to do so either. I just don't understand why you don't want to be in the company of the other photographers in that thread. In December you said that you didn't even look at the photos in that thread, and you don't participate a massive amount outside of your own photo threads. 80% of your posts are your photo threads. This makes you appear as if you feel too good for the main thread. You are a good photographer and your images are between good and fantastic (i'm not sure how many of mine make it to good standard) but it doesn't sit easy you starting photo threads of your own when everyone else does so within a central thread.

To be clear, I wasn't accusing you of spamming - if I felt you were, I would have reported it, which I have not done. Many photographers use forums to increase their reach and get their work seen. And that's fine, and links in signatures help drive traffic a little I'm sure. But why should yours be so special that they are in threads of their own when others put their images within the main thread? There are photographers within the pictures thread that are every bit as good as you. Ed is one of them.

Forums aren't just about the written rules.
itshimitis, you are getting personal when you get into the "Italian" generalisation, which - as all these kind of generalisations - got old way before you even thought about writing it. I don't know where you are from, but I am sure I could find some generalisation that apply to your homeland - however, I will not go down to that level.

After our last exchange, I looked into the thread you suggested, and I formed the opinion which I expressed a few posts above (a totally personal opinion, of course). Opinion that Ed also seems to agree with, by the way, even if it brings him to a different course of action. That said, written rules are rules. Not written rules are not rules, and I am sure the forum owners and admins know how to do their job and wrote down as rules what they wanted to be rules (or not), leaving out what they didn't want to be in. If you want to be more royalist than the king, fine. Me, if they are going to change the rules, I will behave accordingly. If not, I gave ample explanation about how I feel about the whole thing.

About adding a gallery section, the framework this forum is based on would allow to do so very rapidly, the most basic (but sufficient) way would be to add just one "photo sharing" section, as there is for instance in the NikonForums that are part of the same network of forums (see HERE).

Best,

Vieri
01-24-2016, 08:44 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Madshutter Quote
itshimitis, you are getting personal when you get into the "Italian" generalisation, which - as all these kind of generalisations - got old way before you even thought about writing it. I don't know where you are from, but I am sure I could find some generalisation that apply to your homeland - however, I will not go down to that level.

After our last exchange, I looked into the thread you suggested, and I formed the opinion which I expressed a few posts above (a totally personal opinion, of course). Opinion that Ed also seems to agree with, by the way, even if it brings him to a different course of action. That said, written rules are rules. Not written rules are not rules, and I am sure the forum owners and admins know how to do their job and wrote down as rules what they wanted to be rules (or not), leaving out what they didn't want to be in. If you want to be more royalist than the king, fine. Me, if they are going to change the rules, I will behave accordingly. If not, I gave ample explanation about how I feel about the whole thing.

About adding a gallery section, the framework this forum is based on would allow to do so very rapidly, the most basic (but sufficient) way would be to add just one "photo sharing" section, as there is for instance in the NikonForums that are part of the same network of forums (see HERE).

Best,

Vieri
So you aren't saying, "Don't worry about it, I'm going to continue to do what I want anyway" ?

If that's not what you have said in the posts above then I have misunderstood you, and you would be entitled to an apology from me.

But it looks to me that Ed plus others that have expressed their opinion before that it is against the culture of the forum to do as you have done repeatedly (had it been one or two threads I wouldn't have passed comment at all) and you have said: "That's your opinion, I'm going to continue doing what I do irrespective of your opinion" which is the same thing as I have suggested above.

I have stood there in Italy where someone shrugs their shoulders when met with disapproval and say "Non ti preoccupare, no c' problemo" and then carry on doing what the other person objected to. It's not a generalisation of all Italians. Just an example of your response.

I'm not disputing the quality of your work. I'm saying your attitude is against the culture of how this forum runs, and that if everyone that is of your quality did the same then the page would be full of individual poster's work, which is not the aim of this forum section.
01-24-2016, 10:02 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
So you aren't saying, "Don't worry about it, I'm going to continue to do what I want anyway" ?

If that's not what you have said in the posts above then I have misunderstood you, and you would be entitled to an apology from me.

But it looks to me that Ed plus others that have expressed their opinion before that it is against the culture of the forum to do as you have done repeatedly (had it been one or two threads I wouldn't have passed comment at all) and you have said: "That's your opinion, I'm going to continue doing what I do irrespective of your opinion" which is the same thing as I have suggested above.

I have stood there in Italy where someone shrugs their shoulders when met with disapproval and say "Non ti preoccupare, no c' problemo" and then carry on doing what the other person objected to. It's not a generalisation of all Italians. Just an example of your response.

I'm not disputing the quality of your work. I'm saying your attitude is against the culture of how this forum runs, and that if everyone that is of your quality did the same then the page would be full of individual poster's work, which is not the aim of this forum section.
So you are saying, "that is my opinion and you have to do as I say", otherwise if I don't comply with your opinion (!) I have a bad attitude, I am evil or something of that sort. Really? To me, I am sorry, it is yours that is not a great attitude. Plus, since I have no direct knowledge of what happened to you in Italy, mentioning it here doesn't mean anything to me, it only sounds like the classic racist attitude towards a whole country and people. Which, I am sorry, is not proof of a great attitude either. There are rules for a reason, and I am complying to those. You don't like them, have them changed and I will comply to the new, amended rules. Until then, this is not going anywhere, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. End of story.

Best,

Vieri
01-24-2016, 10:20 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by The Madshutter Quote
So you are saying, "that is my opinion and you have to do as I say", otherwise if I don't comply with your opinion (!) I have a bad attitude, I am evil or something of that sort. Really? To me, I am sorry, it is yours that is not a great attitude. Plus, since I have no direct knowledge of what happened to you in Italy, mentioning it here doesn't mean anything to me, it only sounds like the classic racist attitude towards a whole country and people. Which, I am sorry, is not proof of a great attitude either. There are rules for a reason, and I am complying to those. You don't like them, have them changed and I will comply to the new, amended rules. Until then, this is not going anywhere, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. End of story.

Best,

Vieri
Racist? I'm part Italian myself. Ridiculous accusation.

Do you not conform to any courtesies in every day life unless there is an actual law? It's the same thing here.
01-24-2016, 10:27 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
Racist? I'm part Italian myself. Ridiculous accusation.
So you say, and if so, the more shame on you.

QuoteQuote:
Do you not conform to any courtesies in every day life unless there is an actual law? It's the same thing here.
Of course I do. And of course is not the same thing here, not at all. Here you have trouble with me not doing what you say, just because you say so - and insisting that for some reason I have to is, really, quite ridiculous.

Just so I am clear - have you read my post above, about why I don't like and will not post in the thread you mention? If so, I have a question for you, very simple, I just need a yes or no answer. Here it comes:

- Do you think that the actual way of displaying images is the best possible, ever? Yes or no.

I am dying to know what you think. Best,

Vieri
01-24-2016, 10:49 AM   #30
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To clarify I did not say that all Italians are the same. Just that I had received that as a passive aggressive response.

Do I think that the current way with the thread is the best way?

I'm not sure. In a way it works quite well because it is quite informal and that is one of the things I like about this forum. There are other forums where you can use a gallery forum section to showcase your work or invite feedback.

My issue is that you put in 4 threads over a very short period of time and when challenged politely you got defensive. You disrupted the forum culture without first checking if it was ok and considerate to other forum users.

Personally, had you put up a single thread and put my pictures of 645z in Scotland and put them all in there you might not have rocked the boat as much.
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