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01-24-2016, 02:24 AM   #1
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645Z and Capture One

Hi all.

As quoted by Doug Peterson from Digital Transitions on the GetDPI forum, to a user discussing importing 645z files into C1:

"Capture One does not support the 645Z, and support will not be added in the future."

There we have it, straight from the horses' mouth, or about as close to it as we will get.

Its a shame really as I would like to use C1, but not really interested in being "shut out" and as I am about to purchase a full secondary camera system to compliment my Z, I was thinking about using C1, but I don't fancy that attitude.

Now you could take the opinion of "competition this, competitive advantage that", but you would think that C1 would be a door-opening introduction to the world of Phase One for those of use you use higher end systems that are not P1. Obviously they don't see it that way, or see it as enough that they have leaf shutter lenses, better tethering, better dealer/client support network, better sensor-to-processing integration, better in-house profiles.

Rant for the day over......

01-24-2016, 02:41 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Capture One does not support the 645Z, and support will not be added in the future.
This is basically their way of saying get a real medium format camera you cheapskate.
01-24-2016, 03:09 AM   #3
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You can hack C1 to get around it, but I do agree with you. I'd be more likely to buy a Phase One in the future if my workflow became mostly C1
01-24-2016, 03:21 AM   #4
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I stopped really caring about pixel sharpness once I got 51 million of them, and as far as conversion quality goes, LR does just fine. It only bothered me when I was coming over from Canon and was used to having to optimize my image quality to get the most out of their aging sensors, but the 645Z so far exceeds all that, that it doesn't really concern me anymore. Now that I have my whole library in LR, it would be a pain going back anyway, but I still keep C1 around for those times I might want to pull out an old Raw.

I thought I'd be excited at the possibility of a full-frame 645 sensor, but the Phase One 100mp sensor announcement left me kind of indifferent, in fact, I think I'd have been more excited if it was like a 60mp sensor at most. As it is, I can't possibly think of a reason why I'd want more than what I have now, it might be different for others, but what I want is a really solid line of high-end lenses for the Pentax system. AF lenses that can go to f/2 and still render a sharp image, preferably designed for 33x44 to keep size and cost down, or quality way up.

01-24-2016, 04:25 AM   #5
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Whether or not it's good business on the part of C1, it's a bad look.
01-24-2016, 05:53 AM   #6
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I'm not a user of Capture One, but I am curious: does it not work with Pentax implementation of DNGs, or only just not work with PEFs?
01-24-2016, 08:07 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Hi all.

As quoted by Doug Peterson from Digital Transitions on the GetDPI forum, to a user discussing importing 645z files into C1:

"Capture One does not support the 645Z, and support will not be added in the future."

There we have it, straight from the horses' mouth, or about as close to it as we will get.

Its a shame really as I would like to use C1, but not really interested in being "shut out" and as I am about to purchase a full secondary camera system to compliment my Z, I was thinking about using C1, but I don't fancy that attitude.

Now you could take the opinion of "competition this, competitive advantage that", but you would think that C1 would be a door-opening introduction to the world of Phase One for those of use you use higher end systems that are not P1. Obviously they don't see it that way, or see it as enough that they have leaf shutter lenses, better tethering, better dealer/client support network, better sensor-to-processing integration, better in-house profiles.

Rant for the day over......
It is a shame but it is obvious that Phase want to handicap the 645Z and force people to buy into their much more expensive system. With the recent LR announcement of tethering support for the 645Z the lack of C1 becomes less painful. Although as a past C1 user on Canon, I can say that their RAW conversion is the best I have seen.
01-24-2016, 08:13 AM   #8
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There is no doubt that C1 and Phase are formidable performers, as you would expect for the cost of the Phase system. That said, 645Z DNG files processed in LR using the embedded profile vs the Adobe default, look very good. If one really wants to pixel peep and lose sleep over subtle color differences, there are work arounds and third party profile plug ins for LR, especially created for the 645Z.

The flash sync problem has been put to bed fairly effectively as there are now hardware workarounds for that issue, as well. Likewise, tethering for studio use. The remaining issue of lenses, or lack of, is also less of an issue than 645Z detractors would have you believe. The new lenses, especially the 28-45 zoom, are stunningly good and stopped down a bit, rival far more expensive equivalents from Hasselblad and Phase/Mamiya.

There is clearly resentment in the higher end of the medium format community because Pentax has shaken things up. It's much like a $80K Corvette performing in many respects like a $200-400K Porsche or Ferrari. The Corvette becomes a subject of nitpicking. The fact that economies of scale enable the Corvette to be produced for a relatively low cost is ignored. Likewise, while Pentax is not in the same league sales numbers wise as Canon or Nikon, the numbers are such that bits and pieces, supply chain leverage, etc., enable the 645Z to be produced for a fraction of the cost of a Hasselblad or Phase system.

---------- Post added 01-24-16 at 05:16 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by EssJayEff Quote
I'm not a user of Capture One, but I am curious: does it not work with Pentax implementation of DNGs, or only just not work with PEFs?
Because the 645Z uses a SONY sensor from the same family as the FF sensors, I believe some C1 users have used the SONY profiles with some success. There are other third party profiles that have been developed for the 645Z that work as LR plugins that many have been very pleased with. A search on Getdpi.com will provide more details.

01-24-2016, 08:24 AM   #9
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Getting the 645z files to work with C1 is pretty easy, I have done it by using an exif editor and just changing the camera name. You can do it in batch to a large number of files, though I find that LR with a custom profile is close enough to not have to bother.

Last edited by psenior1; 01-24-2016 at 08:30 AM.
01-24-2016, 02:16 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by EssJayEff Quote
I'm not a user of Capture One, but I am curious: does it not work with Pentax implementation of DNGs, or only just not work with PEFs?
DNG's. Basically it skims the EXIF for a list of supported camera models. If you change the exif within the dng to something like "Phase One" rather than Pentax it will then load the file ok.

This is why it's annoying. Its clear C1 can read the files. It's clear that if Phase One just spent a day or two writing a colour profile for the 645z, heck maybe even a couple of hours - it would work great. It's just blocking us deliberately to make us run out and spend $30k+

I'm not against buying a phase one in the future - it's probably inevitable - but this C1 blocking thing does leave a bad taste.
01-24-2016, 02:34 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
Hi all.

As quoted by Doug Peterson from Digital Transitions on the GetDPI forum, to a user discussing importing 645z files into C1:

"Capture One does not support the 645Z, and support will not be added in the future."
C1 posted the same on their forum, then closed the thread a couple of years ago. Not going to happen.
01-24-2016, 06:18 PM - 2 Likes   #12
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With that attitude, they certainly do not need my support. I will stick with Adobe and will tell all my friends about it.
01-24-2016, 06:34 PM   #13
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Me too. I seriously considered a Phase One option recently and this sort of attitude was one of the main reasons I turned away from them.
01-24-2016, 06:57 PM   #14
PDL
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I am a Capture One user and I have opened support cases with them on their non support of Pentax metadata. They do not support Lens ID, camera serial number and a few other fields. When on the phone with support (really good people) I asked why they do not support Pentax. They said, "We support all Pentax 35mm format cameras (APS-C is a 35mm in their eyes) however they do not and will not support the 645 line". Capture One does not support Hasselbad either.

I am using v9 now and love it. I can't afford a 645D/Z, Hasselbad, or Phase One, so in on sense - I don't care. I have Lightroom and I have been a user of the basic engine even before Adobe purchased them. My lightroom version is perpetual, which means I do not get added features. Not so with Capture One, I get all the "new" features as updates are released. This will most likely be the last copy of Lightroom I purchase - ever.

The Elitist -formerly known as PDL
01-24-2016, 07:17 PM   #15
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The one thing stopping me going to C1 100% of the time is no 645Z support. I have C1 but only use it every so often. Luckily LR does a good job on 645Z files.
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