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03-07-2016, 12:47 PM   #1
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Pentax 67 odd serial no.

Hi everyone,

I've just today taken delivery of a Pentax 67 and have a query regarding the serial. Now this has been prompted from looking at the serial database.

The camera is badged as a 67 and has the black shutter surround as the 67 is supposed to have yet the serial on this camera is 408xxxx and from what I've read the 67 serials start 415xxxx. Can anyone shed any light on what's going on here??

Thanks, Ash.

03-07-2016, 12:50 PM   #2
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All I'll say is that Pentax serial numbers make no sense...
03-07-2016, 01:30 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by bertwert Quote
All I'll say is that Pentax serial numbers make no sense...
Thanks Bertwert, that's calmed me down a little.
03-07-2016, 01:43 PM   #4
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Your camera could easily have been damaged and that piece with the S/N, replaced with an older piece with the older number.

03-07-2016, 02:03 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by desertscape Quote
Your camera could easily have been damaged and that piece with the S/N, replaced with an older piece with the older number.
Oh great, at least I was calm for a moment 😂
03-07-2016, 03:24 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ashley-C Quote
Hi everyone,

I've just today taken delivery of a Pentax 67 and have a query regarding the serial. Now this has been prompted from looking at the serial database.

The camera is badged as a 67 and has the black shutter surround as the 67 is supposed to have yet the serial on this camera is 408xxxx and from what I've read the 67 serials start 415xxxx. Can anyone shed any light on what's going on here??

Thanks, Ash.
Ash: There are several 7-integer entries in the 67 database lower than 415xxxx. I wouldn't worry about what appears to be an out of sequence serial on a 30+ year old camera in a database with a couple dozen entries. It's too small to be indicative. We believe Pentax used blocks of available number sequences based on their planned batch size, without any reference logic.

By some odd chance I have 3 of the 4 highest KX serials in the database, the two highest separated by only xxx1128 serials. The next highest number of mine is completely out of sequence, beginning 847xxxx instead of 893xxxx. There's no logic to the numbers.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-07-2016 at 03:35 PM.
03-07-2016, 04:01 PM   #7
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What is this?
"black shutter surround as the 67 is supposed to have"
??
03-07-2016, 04:41 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Silent Street Quote
What is this?
"black shutter surround as the 67 is supposed to have"
??
The collar around the shutter button. On 6x7 cameras it's chrome, on 67 cameras it's black.

03-07-2016, 06:27 PM - 1 Like   #9
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The serial numbers for the 6x7 and 67 are one long sequence starting at 4000000 and running through to around 4219000, maybe a little higher. The 67II appears to have been produced in batches and has large gaps between groups of numbers. Going back to the 6x7/67 the change over point was around number 4159849, at least that is the highest serial number I have seen that is still badged as a 6x7, while 4159862 was badged as a 67. The trouble is that it is very easy to swap the panel with the 6x7 model engraving on it over for one with 67 on it instead. The shutter button surround is attached to it, so having a black surround instead of a silver one isn't any indication of being a proper 67 either. My own 6x7 serial number list has 730 entries in it and around 30 of those are for older cameras with 67 badging - even non MLU models. I have even seen the reverse, an early 6x7 complete with checker pad spool locks with a 408xxxx serial number.

Some of these may have been repairing accident damage by swapping with whatever parts were available but I suspect others were people "upgrading" for a better sale price.
03-07-2016, 11:31 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ashley-C Quote
The collar around the shutter button. On 6x7 cameras it's chrome, on 67 cameras it's black.
The shutter-collar can be chrome or black, as can sometimes be seen for the multi-exposure modification on the top right side of the body (factory fitted or after-purchase). Of the two bodies I have examined neither of the multiexposure facility were painted.

My 67 has a shutter-collar, but I have also seen 67 bodies with a chrome collar. It's either a batch thing, a repair/replacement or a random throw of the dice ("which finish shall we do next??"). I venture to suggest that these unsual quirks may in some way increase the value of a P6x7 or later P67 camera. I wouldn't know though, I'm not a dealer in antiques!
03-08-2016, 12:43 AM   #11
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Thanks Paul,

A lot of what you say makes sense. I think mine is a 6x7 that's either been rebadged deliberately to look like a 67 or a repair from parts available. Either way I pay such a good price for it that ultimately I've decided I don't mind and mechanically it seems to be fine order.

Out of interest what's this 'checker pad spool lock' you refer to?
03-08-2016, 03:57 PM   #12
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On the bottom plate instead of the little flip up levers/handles that you rotate to unlock the film spools when you change films there are little pads with a engraved checker pattern. You rotate these and then push them in to release them at which point they pop out slightly and the film spool can be taken out. These were on the first 17000 or so bodies before being replaced by the more familiar handles which make film loading slightly easier.

Basically, almost all of the external upgrades made over the life of the 6x7/67 can be retrofitted to the older bodies. I have no idea whether this is also true of the shutter and winder upgrades.

The sequence is something like this (most of the start/end points are rough estimates):
First run 4,000,000 -> 4001,600 (very approximate) Checker film spool locks, fluted 21/10 switch, silver lens release, silver shutter button collar, white serial number
4001,600 -> 4,017,000 Shutter reset button, slot 21/10 switch, checker film spool locks, silver lens release, silver shutter button collar, white serial number
4,017,000 -> 4060,500 Handle film spool locks, slot 21/10 switch, shutter reset button, silver lens release, silver shutter button collar, white serial number
4,060,500 -> 4093,000 Mirror Lock Up, 220/120 switch, black lens release, handle film spool locks, shutter reset button, silver shutter button collar, white serial number
4,093,000 -> 4159,850 Black serial number, mirror lock up, 220/120 switch, black lens release, handle film spool locks, shutter reset button, silver shutter button collar
4,159,850 -> 4219,000 67, black shutter button collar, plastic centre panels, black serial number, mirror lock up, 220/120 switch, black lens release, handle film spool locks, shutter reset button

The highest serial number I have listed is 4218866 but I vaguely recall seeing a 4,22x,xxx at some stage.

It is impossible to tell how many of the original bodies without the shutter reset button were produced. Any of those that had a flat battery during exposure would have required a trip to Pentax to be fixed, so they chances are they would have been upgraded as soon as the shutter reset button was introduced. Similarly the fluted style 21/10 switch (frame number control dial) only appears on some of the early cameras. That would be a very cheap thing to upgrade to the more user-friendly slot style.
03-08-2016, 04:11 PM   #13
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I've just been looking at my 67 and I can't find a serial number - where's it meant to be?
03-08-2016, 05:10 PM   #14
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Next to the shutter speed dial, above the battery light. It shouldn't be painted which makes it hard to see.
03-09-2016, 01:40 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul Ewins Quote
Next to the shutter speed dial, above the battery light. It shouldn't be painted which makes it hard to see.
4169028 - many thanks - I took the metering prism off, but not the extender collar for the shutter speed dial, so it was partially hidden still - that was about the one place I didn't look! (excuse - haven't used the camera for a few years - wish I hadn't taken it out again now - fallen in love again )
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