[jonohake28]

Yeah I've had dealings with Johnsons photopia before- extremely slow at replying even as you say. Yes in based in uk 645z rental is an option, but probably can't rent a 645d anymore. I think the z would be a better choice however overall compared to the D.

I'm pretty sure the camera is exactly what I'm looking for, but the price is still quite high for me. £4000 would seem less mad, the £6000 just seems to go beyond a physiological barrier in my head haha. Thanks for your information guys!

[itshimitis]

Yeah I've had dealings with Johnsons photopia before- extremely slow at replying even as you say. Yes in based in uk 645z rental is an option, but probably can't rent a 645d anymore. I think the z would be a better choice however overall compared to the D.

I'm pretty sure the camera is exactly what I'm looking for, but the price is still quite high for me. £4000 would seem less mad, the £6000 just seems to go beyond a physiological barrier in my head haha. Thanks for your information guys!

There is that £5499 second hand but brand new Z with the DFA 55 f/2.8 I linked earlier from Mifsuds. that's around £7k new.

http://mifsuds.com/pentax/Used-Pentax-645Z-Digital-Medium-Format?sort=p.price&order=DESC

I wouldn't mind betting it was their demo unit. They aren't like Jessops though who leave their demo units around with no lens on them. It's shown as unused which has to be true under sales legislation.

[One3rdEV]

OP- If you decide to stay with the Nikon 8xx series, then I'd recommend to consider removing the focusing screen and measure the visible dimensions on it. You might have to identify this by trial and error using small pieces of tape. Be careful to not have your finger prints permanently mark-up the screen. Then using your knowledge of the OEM image ratio vs actual physical dimensions of the visible area of the focusing screen- recalculate what the difference would be for the 4:3 ratio. Lastly, score the focusing screen to the calculated 4:3 ratio dimension using a very accurate straight edge (e.g. metal) and exacto knife. Keep the score line as thin, yet distinct and concise as you can. If it needs to show up darker, then score it deeper (but which will also widen it).

[richmondthefish]

the 40mp 645d is nearly $3400 new at b&h, it's a dinosaur that came out in 2010... you can get a 42mp a7rii for $3200, it'll have silent shutter, efcs up to 1/1000th, and it'll probably be able to use all of the nikon lenses that the o.p. currently has.

645D maybe a dino but the output in certain situations is still amazing.

Please show me a Full Frame camera than can output a file this good(This is JPEG out of camera not RAW)

*40mp link*
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4119/4763388515_81888bd015_o.jpg

[texandrews]

portrait/wedding guy here

Go for it! It's incredible. If I look back at my work since when I switched to the 645z I can see a serious jump in quality.

Gavin, that's true, but I don't think it's all the camera. I think maybe the camera is the kind of solid and good tool that it has liberated you to stretch and achieve.

[mikeSF]

645D maybe a dino but the output in certain situations is still amazing.

Please show me a Full Frame camera than can output a file this good(This is JPEG out of camera not RAW)

*40mp link*
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4119/4763388515_81888bd015_o.jpg

outstanding!

[narual]

OP- If you decide to stay with the Nikon 8xx series, then I'd recommend to consider removing the focusing screen and measure the visible dimensions on it. You might have to identify this by trial and error using small pieces of tape. Be careful to not have your finger prints permanently mark-up the screen. Then using your knowledge of the OEM image ratio vs actual physical dimensions of the visible area of the focusing screen- recalculate what the difference would be for the 4:3 ratio. Lastly, score the focusing screen to the calculated 4:3 ratio dimension using a very accurate straight edge (e.g. metal) and exacto knife. Keep the score line as thin, yet distinct and concise as you can. If it needs to show up darker, then score it deeper (but which will also widen it).

too bad Katzeye isn't around anymore, they would have done one for him with the 4x5 marks in place for both horizontal and vertical if he'd asked.

focusingscreen.com might be able to if you can get them to understand what you want.

[Royce Howland]

Gavin, that's true, but I don't think it's all the camera. I think maybe the camera is the kind of solid and good tool that it has liberated you to stretch and achieve.

I think there's a lot of truth to that. There are subjective and objective quality differences between different bodies, lenses, software, etc. But an overlooked key, I think, is that you will generally make your best work with a set of tools you really love and want to use. A camera system that for whatever combination of reasons is "right" is one that you'll learn inside & out, and you'll develop the ability to push it to (or creatively past) its limits. In turn, its idiosyncrasies will push back on you and force you to adapt in ways that can sharpen your creative output. Perhaps even add an element to your visual style. These kinds of factors aren't quantifiable, and aren't really possible to report on with any number of reviews, MTF charts, test shots, sensor ratings, or any of the other good info that's out there on the net.

I could shoot any of the SoNikanon 35mm bodies I want. I have shot many of the older ones. Problem is, I don't want to shoot any of them. The Pentax digital 645 system fits my needs extremely well -- it feels like it was designed for me, though not without a few flaws in execution. I enjoy the heck of using (and abusing) it. I simply want to use it in every situation where it can possibly apply, and that's in part why I'm making some of my best work ever with it. If I shot any of the 35mm systems now I know I'd frequently be reluctant, even resistant, about it... and that's not good for the work.

I'm fortunate that there are very few situations that I really need to cover, where the 645's can't cut it. For those few, I have the scraps of a 35mm system based around the Sony a7R. But I can't even remember the last time I used it.

I was a Canon digital shooter needing something different, and my decision point was 645D vs. D800. In some ways that decision should have been more clear-cut in favour of Nikon because of all the creature comforts of modern digital body features that were lacking with the 645D, but mostly present on the D800. But the first time I shot the system for real, and really dug into the files, made prints, etc. I was sold 100 % on the Pentax. There are some improvements D800 --> D810 (or a7R II or 5DS or whatever), but even more massive improvements 645D --> 645Z, so still no regrets to date.

(Though -- full disclosure -- I have lots of disappointment in the poor level of service & support for Pentax 645. That's can be a real issue for some people with a system like this, and I acknowledge that I've put up with enough Pentax service crap to make my blood pressure spike on several occasions. But I tolerate it because it's worth it to me to keep using this system.)

[PhilRich]

I probably don't have anything significant to add to this discussion, however this was my experience: Last May, considering my Canon 5D was really aging, I spent a lot of time online - which led to a comparison of the updated 50mp Canon to the Z posted photos. The colors and everything else were so much better with the Z!! Then, if that wasn't enough, MikeSF's photos blew me away, as well as other's on this site, so I just had to have the MF Pentax. I find I really like the color rendition of the Pentax Z even with the old lens. I bought my Z plus the DA 55 sale combo package that was offered from Canada where there was a very favorable exchange rate. That did it for me. Another plus is that a lot of relatively inexpensive lens are to be found online. And then the utility of the live view feature was a definite plus when comparing the Z to the D.

[mee]

Has anyone suggested renting a 645Z yet? If not, I suggest renting a 645Z and see if it works for you. That would be the only way to really understand the pros and cons.. reading user opinions and charts or looking at others images only go so far.. putting your hands on the camera and actually using it goes a lot farther imo.

I know in the US one can rent a 645Z and a bevy of lenses (lensrentals).. perhaps there is a similar outfit in the UK?

[gavincato]

I think there's a lot of truth to that. There are subjective and objective quality differences between different bodies, lenses, software, etc. But an overlooked key, I think, is that you will generally make your best work with a set of tools you really love and want to use. A camera system that for whatever combination of reasons is "right" is one that you'll learn inside & out, and you'll develop the ability to push it to (or creatively past) its limits. In turn, its idiosyncrasies will push back on you and force you to adapt in ways that can sharpen your creative output. Perhaps even add an element to your visual style. These kinds of factors aren't quantifiable, and aren't really possible to report on with any number of reviews, MTF charts, test shots, sensor ratings, or any of the other good info that's out there on the net.

Yeah guys, no arguments there. I enjoy using the 645 and enjoy having a different kit to all my competition. It's certainly got my brain going.

That said, those incredible files and great lenses aren't hurting I find the canon lenses a bit too perfect/sterile these days.

[texandrews]

I'm fortunate that there are very few situations that I really need to cover, where the 645's can't cut it. For those few, I have the scraps of a 35mm system based around the Sony a7R. But I can't even remember the last time I used it.

Exactly the same thing has happened to me, and it seems we are in agreement in everything you said I didn't quote as well.

(Though -- full disclosure -- I have lots of disappointment in the poor level of service & support for Pentax 645. That's can be a real issue for some people with a system like this, and I acknowledge that I've put up with enough Pentax service crap to make my blood pressure spike on several occasions. But I tolerate it because it's worth it to me to keep using this system.)

Sadly, this is the scariest part of using the camera for me. Knock wood, no problems so far. I desperately hope Ricoh fixes this problem (they have made some noises about that) very soon. The situation is incomprehensible to me---even if the gear does have to go back to Japan. It's the middle of the first decade of the 21st century. Shipping to Japan and back doesn't take that long, so that isn't the problem...

[heydavemyers]

I’m a current Nikon D810 owner, struggling over whether I should purchase a Pentax 645z or not? - Hint I definitely want to, the camera ticks all the boxes, but I’m not sure if I am being ridiculous or not.

What do I shoot? I shoot portraits, fine art, documentary and studio mainly. I’m not professionally shooting, but I am extremely ambitious about creating serious long term work. Photography is my passion, but I also hope to make it commercially viable in the future.

I have had brief love affairs with Medium Format film, but kept selling and reverting back to digital due to cost of film, the extra time needed to scan film and archive it + tinker with the colours in post processing. The idea of MF digital has always been what I have been waiting out for, but have consistently put it out of my mind due to the cost being too prohibitive. 645Z is actually possible albeit a big stretch.


Points in favour of the Pentax 645z:

- I’m not a fan of 2:3 ratio of the Nikon D810 and almost always crop to 4:3 ratio - I’m drawn to the idea of a viewfinder that shows me 4:3, so that I don’t have to imagine how a crop will look.

- If I do crop the image of the D810, it takes the sensor size approx 36-32 meg pixels - vs the Pentax 645z

- A thing that always runs through my mind is; if I start shooting a project on my D810, will I always regret it eventually that I didn’t shoot it on a larger format in the future. I think investing all that time and money into a project, will you then feel like you should’ve shot it on something that will stand the test of time - be able to print massive if the need arises.

- Weather sealed with 55m - very cool

- medium format vs full frame


Points against the Pentax 645z:

- Relatively high cost £6000 for Pentax 645z and 55mm 2.8 lens offer at the moment - that would pay for a mamiya 7ii and 80mm lens, with about 3,704 shots of film (process and scan) - although it’s very expensive and difficult in the UK. In other words - digital would only be cheaper after the point of taking 3,700 medium format film shots.

- Would have to keep the D810 probably for video work and more ‘run and gun situations’ or as a backup? Thus adding to the cost.


In conclusion: The 645z seems to tick a lot of boxes for me: digital, potential huge prints, 4:3 ratio, Medium format. I want the camera quite badly, but am quite honestly still scared at the price and whether I am making a ‘poor’ decision, in terms of what it will gain me over the D810 or similar DSLR.

I keep thinking I will buy the 645z in the future, but seems like projects undertaken not with D810 won’t compare.

I'd be interested in knowing what you can accomplish with the 645 that you can't with the D810. It is very easy to get drunk with camera specs nowadays and live in constant envy. Hard on the bank account, too!

[itshimitis]

I'd be interested in knowing what you can accomplish with the 645 that you can't with the D810. It is very easy to get drunk with camera specs nowadays and live in constant envy. Hard on the bank account, too!

You could take that argument down the whole chain and just argue to take photos with a compact. Interestingly, a compact is one of the few ways apart from 645 that the OP could shoot natively at 4x3. I doubt his clients would be approving of that! From what the OP says the 4 x 3 aspect is one of the driving forces for him wanting to make the change. There are other benefits too based on a larger sensor...

[jonohake28]

Thanks for all the input everyone, I really appreciate it.

I had a look at the link for the 645z at Misfuds and it is tempting, although given the price, might be safer to buy new and have warranty etc. for the sake of a couple of hundred quid.

It definitely sounds like the support for getting things replaced if the need arose, would be difficult, hence the benefit of having a backup body like the d810, canon 5d3 or similar.

The recommendation to score the screen was a little extreme for me, but I can see how it would be helpful. I think it really is an issue whilst taking the shot you want to work in the format that you intend to print at. Modern dslr's are almost exclusively 2:3 ratio, which I find way too wide, very difficult to use. Ideally I'd have a mam7 that was digital, basic camera with basic function, super sharp lenses but with a legit sensor, this is pure dreaming of course - I don't think that many people are after this sort of thing.