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04-02-2016, 01:39 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
I wonder if we were to manipulate the JPG file settings on the Z if there is a way to get it even closer, such as setting the contrast to lowest setting and playing with sharpness and colour.
I'm sure you could make it closer.

QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
but show the RAW histogram overlaid in review mode.
That'll be a JPEG histogram, not a RAW one.

04-02-2016, 01:52 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
That'll be a JPEG histogram, not a RAW one.
Sure, but I am asking why if the camera can read a raw file, why can't it show a jpg render on the screen, but overlay the histogram from the raw file on the screen as well. Do you understand what I am saying.

Heck, if the camera can't actually read the raw file, then why cant they make it that at the point of capture, the camera writes the raw histogram data to a file on the SD card, or embed it into the metadata so that the playback mode can show it.

Its not that hard for them to get this right really.
04-02-2016, 01:56 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
I wonder if we were to manipulate the JPG file settings on the Z if there is a way to get it even closer, such as setting the contrast to lowest setting and playing with sharpness and colour.

I am still at a loss as to why the camera can't display the JPG render, but show the RAW histogram overlaid in review mode.
You could choose one of the presets - these only show on jpg in any case. The muted preset gives a much flatter look to the jpg. These also show in real time in live view too. Just tried it out in my kitchen
04-02-2016, 03:24 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
.

Heck, if the camera can't actually read the raw file, then why cant they make it that at the point of capture, the camera writes the raw histogram data to a file on the SD card, or embed it into the metadata so that the playback mode can show it.
Unfortunately, 2351, I don't think you understand there is no such thing as a raw histogram.

The RAW file contains only monochromatic data for starters. That's why I was asking you about this D810 upgrade you were telling us about. You still haven't replied.

You always need to render a RAW file to see a histogram or preview image or live view or whatever. You're demosaicing, applying a tone curve, white balance, etc. An inherent problem with JPEG is that you're crushing all that data down to 8 bits. But I don't know of a camera that displays TIF, for instance.

You might Google 'RAW conversion' or similar to learn about the process.


Last edited by clackers; 04-02-2016 at 03:31 AM.
04-02-2016, 10:11 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
You could choose one of the presets - these only show on jpg in any case. The muted preset gives a much flatter look to the jpg. These also show in real time in live view too. Just tried it out in my kitchen
if the jpeg preset differences show up in liveview, it can't be reading the raw file, and it can't be reading it "directly off of the sensor", the article was wrong, as we suspected.

sony behaves the same way, you can have a b&w liveview evf display, by changing the settings in the menu... it's helpful for focus peaking.
04-02-2016, 11:04 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Unfortunately, 2351, I don't think you understand there is no such thing as a raw histogram.

The RAW file contains only monochromatic data for starters. That's why I was asking you about this D810 upgrade you were telling us about. You still haven't replied.

You always need to render a RAW file to see a histogram or preview image or live view or whatever. You're demosaicing, applying a tone curve, white balance, etc. An inherent problem with JPEG is that you're crushing all that data down to 8 bits. But I don't know of a camera that displays TIF, for instance.

You might Google 'RAW conversion' or similar to learn about the process.
I am well aware of what a Raw file is and is not. If we have the attitude of t can't be done" then how are we ever going to get what we really want.

If RawDigger can make software that can view/create an actual "Raw Histogram", why can't they build a variant of that into a camera?

All we need really is for the data to be written to a metadata type file as the Raw file is being created at time of capture, then the camera doesn't even need to be able to read a raw histogram at all.

I looked back on the Nikon thing, it was on NikonRumors in 2015 at different points, apparently Nikon was going to release a firmware update program. Not sure what came of it though.
04-03-2016, 03:11 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
.

If RawDigger can make software that can view/create an actual "Raw Histogram", why can't they build a variant of that into a camera?
If you want to see where clipping is, your blinky will tell you off the sensor, look what Raw Digger tell you to do with their software:

http://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/rawdigger-histograms-overexposure-shapes

QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote

I looked back on the Nikon thing, it was on NikonRumors in 2015 at different points, apparently Nikon was going to release a firmware update program. Not sure what came of it though.
A rumour site??
04-03-2016, 11:17 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote

A rumour site??
It was posted on nikonrumors.com last year as an expected update, but it never materialized, so the D810 histogram remains read from the jpeg.

Cheers,
Ross

04-03-2016, 06:12 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by SeattleDucks Quote
It was posted on nikonrumors.com last year as an expected update, but it never materialized, so the D810 histogram remains read from the jpeg.

Cheers,
Ross
Thanks for the info, Ross!
04-04-2016, 11:24 AM   #25
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2351HD, you might want to check my thread from last year...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/290860-645z-diffe...ml#post3191755

unfortunately Michael was not right.
cheers
Z
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