[2351HD]

Yep, exactly. I really like Pentax and will hold off before going over to the Fuji. But if they do that, release a FF MF and tell me that my $6000 DA 28-45 won't work then they will loose me.

[photoptimist]

Yep, exactly. I really like Pentax and will hold off before going over to the Fuji. But if they do that, release a FF MF and tell me that my $6000 DA 28-45 won't work then they will loose me.

Hmmmm... I don't understand the logic...

The DA 28-45 on FF MF would surely work in crop mode just like DA lenses do on the K-1. You'd even get a slight resolution boost. The new Fuji & Hassy mirrorless lenses are totally incompatible with FF MF and the 100 MP FF MF offerings from Hassy & Phase One are hugely expensive.

If FF MF is worth it to you, your best upgrade path would remain Pentax. And if FF MF is not worth it to you, then what does it matter whether the lenses you have work on a camera you don't want?

[2351HD]

2 reasons. I already am not getting what I ultimately want with Pentax and that's an option for an EVF and a lighter (if slightly) body. Plus, nobody likes getting played and spending big dollars on gear that ultimately has no forward path, it shows lack of respect for your customers.

I am very happy with crop MF as I am an enthusiast so Pentax crop or Fuji crop will do.

If they release the roadmap zooms in DFA then that's a good sign. Tired of the waiting for the magical roadmap lenses though.

[TDvN57]

I also read somewhere that the DFA lenses are not full frame. I took out my old 645 Nii and mounted the 28-45.

Saw no vignetting in the view finder, which to my knowledge is near full frame on the Nii. Took a roll of pictures and will go and look for a place to develop it.

As a matter of interest the exposure worked fine. The camera switched to shutter priority and automatically adjusted the aperture. Focus of course is manual and the shake reduction is disabled.

But as far as FF goes, thus far it looks as if there no vignetting, or could be minor beyond the field of view of the OVF.

Has anybody else tested this?

[RonHendriks1966]

With Hasselblad X1D and Fujifilm GFX around the corner, and the occasional complaint about the size and slowness of the Pentax 645D/Z would it make sense for Pentax to take on the mirrorless MF market?

Add to that some IBIS, some pixel shift high res and some weather sealing and they could be leapfrogging Hasselblad and Fujifilm - both products looking like they are going to nab a large chunk of the pro market in 2017. (that GFX looks damn sexy)

What think ye?

That "chunk" isn't as big as you think. Yes both Hasselblad and Fuji will sell a nice amount of camera's in 2017, but then......it will dry up and sales will plunge in 2018. People needing that expensive camera for their work aren't that many. Then you have the David Beckham's of the world and then it ends.

[eddie1960]

That "chunk" isn't as big as you think. Yes both Hasselblad and Fuji will sell a nice amount of camera's in 2017, but then......it will dry up and sales will plunge in 2018. People needing that expensive camera for their work aren't that many. Then you have the David Beckham's of the world and then it ends.

All medium format is a tiny Niche, always has been. the fact that higher end FF Digital cameras are pretty close to capable of resolving as well as the best 645 and up film cameras in the past means the need to use medium format is lessened. There is of course still a demand but it's even more niche .
A true 6x6 or 6x7 would win some converts as well but it would be crazy expensive still , Pentax is on the right path with the 645 series, incremental improvements, quality glass and best value for the $. there will likely be some challenge drom the Fuji for guys looking for lighter with some of the same functionality and value but for the tim,e being anyway pentax has a better lens assortment (that won't last if the x series are an indicator fuji will have a good number of great lenses for the GMX in time

[TDvN57]

All medium format is a tiny Niche, always has been. the fact that higher end FF Digital cameras are pretty close to capable of resolving as well as the best 645 and up film cameras in the past means the need to use medium format is lessened. There is of course still a demand but it's even more niche .
A true 6x6 or 6x7 would win some converts as well but it would be crazy expensive still , Pentax is on the right path with the 645 series, incremental improvements, quality glass and best value for the $. there will likely be some challenge drom the Fuji for guys looking for lighter with some of the same functionality and value but for the tim,e being anyway pentax has a better lens assortment (that won't last if the x series are an indicator fuji will have a good number of great lenses for the GMX in time

The reviews I have read on the P1 100mpix 645 FF are quite good and it will be nice to see the same sensor combined with the Pentax juice, mirror less or not. I think the resistance factor is the investment in high-end glass. I agree it is a niche market for MF, but I have seen photographers growing restless with the 35mm FF and wanting more. That is where MF 645 FF comes in.

The more specialized the average photographer like me becomes, the more quality we want. That does not mean that we are good photographers or become any better, we just find a new way of enjoying a fascinating craft/art. I am sure to the annoyance of the real masters of the craft.

My penny's worth....

[eddie1960]

The reviews I have read on the P1 100mpix 645 FF are quite good and it will be nice to see the same sensor combined with the Pentax juice, mirror less or not. I think the resistance factor is the investment in high-end glass. I agree it is a niche market for MF, but I have seen photographers growing restless with the 35mm FF and wanting more. That is where MF 645 FF comes in.

The more specialized the average photographer like me becomes, the more quality we want. That does not mean that we are good photographers or become any better, we just find a new way of enjoying a fascinating craft/art. I am sure to the annoyance of the real masters of the craft.

My penny's worth....

Hopefully Medium format develops in to a larger market because that always brings the price down. if it were just wealthy enthusiasts using it medium format would be like leica (I'd truly love a leica, or for that matter just a true rangefinder , i love my xpro despite it being the least sophisticated in many ways of the 4 Fuji bodies i own because of the RF like experience the hybrid VF provides. at some point i will dump the XT1 in favour of the new Xpro2 for that very reason

[TDvN57]

DFA are full frame. DA are cropped.

I own two of the "D" lenses: 28-45mm DA and 55mm DFA, and none of them are cropped when using it on the 645Nii film camera which is the FF 645. My tests were done without the lens hoods. I read somewhere that the lenses are not cropped but the lens hoods may cause vignetting, which may be an issue for some people although not an issue for me.

See attached the current 645 lens line-up. The lenses I dont see on the official line-up list are (1) The 600mm A-star lens; (2) the 25mm prime. Not sure why they dropped it from the official line-up.

[2351HD]

I own two of the "D" lenses: 28-45mm DA and 55mm DFA, and none of them are cropped when using it on the 645Nii film camera which is the FF 645. My tests were done without the lens hoods. I read somewhere that the lenses are not cropped but the lens hoods may cause vignetting, which may be an issue for some people although not an issue for me.

See attached the current 645 lens line-up. The only lens not listed is the 600mm A-star lens, not sure why they dropped it from the official line-up.

I wonder then what the outer performance is like on the 28-45 on FF??

[paulster]

I wonder then what the outer performance is like on the 28-45 on FF??

I'm interested to know as well, particularly since it's such a massive lens.

I really hope I don't have to replace mine or limit it to just the 645Z if/when a 100mp full-frame version of the camera is launched.

[TDvN57]

I wonder then what the outer performance is like on the 28-45 on FF??

The only way to test it is on a film camera, because a digital camera in 645 FF is not available yet. On the 645Nii viewfinder there is no vignette visible at all. My understanding is that the viewfinder is +/- 92 or 93% of the full film size.

I took a roll of film pictures with it and will get back the developed film next week. (The joys of sending in film to be developed is an exercise in patience). In terms of operation it works fine, with manual focus of course because the Nii cannot control the in lens focus motor. The camera sets the aperture automatically, regardless of which mode you select. Thus defaults to shutter priority. But in short it does work.

[bull drinkwater]

sometime you've got to stick with your winner. leave mirrorless to the aps-c and fx models.

[itshimitis]

Well the pricing of the Fuji in the UK is competitive. £6199. London Camera Exchange offering a £500 bonus on top of trade in value. Had I not been so heavily invested in Pentax lenses, I'd be tempted. Even more so with more lenses. However, it will be a dust magnet...

[Zygonyx]

That air space is a heat sink.

I don't think so.
With ever-exposed mirrorless sensors, you logically would need even bigger heat-sinking space, which obviously isn't the case either with GFX nor 1D.

---------- Post added 20-01-17 at 15:33 ----------

However, it will be a dust magnet...

+1, and the Hassy even more...

---------- Post added 20-01-17 at 15:34 ----------

Yep, exactly. I really like Pentax and will hold off before going over to the Fuji. But if they do that, release a FF MF and tell me that my $6000 DA 28-45 won't work then they will loose me.

Get your bucks ready, cos' this is the line, and the reason i never got involved into DA 645. But don't expect 100 Mpix soon in the cropped sensors' ML current systems...

---------- Post added 20-01-17 at 15:39 ----------

sometime you've got to stick with your winner. leave mirrorless to the aps-c and fx models.

To the contrary : mirrorless has it's biggest effectiveness, the widest the sensor is (skewed rays management impact on lens formula, and global body volume)