[Jonathan Mac]

Fuji is not a popular brand for digital cameras at all outside the yuppie geek fraction and some die hard online fans. So their new toy will appeal to the same very limited crowd but not to anyone else. That is why they are so niche that even Pentax can be considered a large mainstream brand in comparison.

But for these mostly low level amateurs with money it is irrelevant if the camera has other modes outside green mode or Av (for the really smart ones), same as it is irrelevant if it can create raws (what is that?).

I am rather suprised the GFX sucks so badly with regards to design, because that is the other important thing for the Fuji geeks: look. The bling-bling factor is missing.
If Hassi can actually deliver their much superior camera, the Fuji stands no chance to compete, even if they drop the price by another 50%.
The Fuji reception already has been lukewarm at best for a good reason.

Still that wont stop your dentists' wife from buying one to document their little children and ponies in Green mode JPG, just to upload it to instagram.

As already stated, this is nonsense. Fuji are increasingly popular and are taking customers from all the other brands, including Pentax. There's no reason why their medium format offerings won't do the same, especially given the great level of anticipation I've seen (far from lukewarm). If you're interested in the looks of a camera then the GFX is very handsome indeed. I think we all get swayed by looks but anyone who takes their gear seriously won't prioritise them. Just as well Fuji gear is good looking as well as superb in operation.

[GeneV]

That said, 8500 dollars is way too rich for my blood and if I were going to "invest" in this sort of gear, it would be for a 645D and some used FA glass. I just can't see it otherwise.

I've been watching used 645D prices as well. I have a P645 and a P645n and four lenses, but neither body has seen film in about 6 years. I invested in an adapter to put the lenses on the K1 or AR7 (stacked adapters), but it would be more fun to try them on a 645D if the price were right. Granted, 36MP FF is not MF, but it certainly made MF a very low priority. Even 16MP made the MF film less worth the trouble, and 24MP pretty much sealed the deal.

[eddie1960]

Fuji is not a popular brand for digital cameras at all outside the yuppie geek fraction and some die hard online fans. So their new toy will appeal to the same very limited crowd but not to anyone else. That is why they are so niche that even Pentax can be considered a large mainstream brand in comparison.

But for these mostly low level amateurs with money it is irrelevant if the camera has other modes outside green mode or Av (for the really smart ones), same as it is irrelevant if it can create raws (what is that?).

I am rather suprised the GFX sucks so badly with regards to design, because that is the other important thing for the Fuji geeks: look. The bling-bling factor is missing.
If Hassi can actually deliver their much superior camera, the Fuji stands no chance to compete, even if they drop the price by another 50%.
The Fuji reception already has been lukewarm at best for a good reason.

Still that wont stop your dentists' wife from buying one to document their little children and ponies in Green mode JPG, just to upload it to instagram.

nice trolling too bad you have no idea what you are talking about. hassleblad i would be in wait and see mode on anything they were in capital trouble, they have been bought by DRI drone maker so until we see what they are doing (is it a hoya strip the company or a rebuild the company....)
none of the fuji users i know fit your description BTW, I know a couple of pros who made the move for various reasons and pretty much all the rest are enthusiasts ....just like the majority of people here are. no need for such brand hatred when there isn't even a production model in anyone's hand yet. the fact that the adaptor for h lenses is shipping at the same time as the camera is great. anyone shooting hassleblad has the option of shooting the fuji as well. and fuji users can get any missing lenses (there is a long history of them working together )

---------- Post added 20th Jan 2017 at 10:43 ----------

By looking at these samples in full size, I wouldn't be handing over my hard-earned for it.

Fuji GFX - High res samples and an appraisal - ProPhotoNut

Going to wait till I can take some raws for myself to evaluate.

All you are seeing so far are jpegs, there s no raw plugin yet so all the samples by everyone are jpegs , that said the greyscale and tonality i thought was very good for what is essentially a SOOC jpeg. it will be interesting to see what happens with a production sample and raw support

[Rondec]

I think anyone buying it will be doing post, but the amount of time you need to spend is impacted by SOOC sidecar files
Right now every image out here is SOOC because there was no raw plugin for any of the edit software as it wasn't the final firmware. Any edits were in camera conversions, so have a look at the large images out there and realize pretty much no more than a basic edit and maybe a basic edit of the JPEG but no one likes editing jpegs if they can avoid it.
I'm pretty impressed. As for lens selection the focus seems more on wide with a portrait lens and the 120 macro in this years lens crop. So the initial focus is landscape and documentary photography and possibly some wedding work though I think 2018 will see the longer lengths . They have also announce a fujinon h adaptor is under development. That gives he ability to use all the great Fuji for hassleblad lenses . It also addresses lack of leaf shutter (the camera is compatible with leaf lenses already in that you can turn off built in shutter)
My biggest complaint would be e lack of planning for a larger sensor as time passes, maybe not ff but a bigger crop

Are you processing using Lightroom? Because all the cameras out there have auto presets that you can apply, or you can create your own.

I shoot a lot of landscape images and therefore I look at these things as a lot more than just white balance and exposure. It is about shadow detail and selective sharpening and contrast.

I can't see most folks buying a medium format camera to take snaps of their kiddos, but maybe so. Wedding photographers are married to their 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 zooms and few are going to really consider switching due to that lack.

[deadwolfbones]

The Fujifilm GFX 50S Review – Portable Beast – jonasrask|photography

Looks pretty dang good to me.

[eddie1960]

Are you processing using Lightroom? Because all the cameras out there have auto presets that you can apply, or you can create your own.

I shoot a lot of landscape images and therefore I look at these things as a lot more than just white balance and exposure. It is about shadow detail and selective sharpening and contrast.

I can't see most folks buying a medium format camera to take snaps of their kiddos, but maybe so. Wedding photographers are married to their 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 zooms and few are going to really consider switching due to that lack.

lightroom and photosjhop, 90% of the time Lightroom does everything i need (and i tend to import with whatever fuji preset i used there are 5 colour and 5 b/w on the XT1 and XE2 (Velvia, Classic Chrome, Astia etc etc) - i then adjust to varying degrees depending on what i want. 10% i need photoshop (Infrared for instance i need PS)
there are wedding guys who made the switch to Fuji apsc. ..
fuji has a distinct look in large part because of their xtrans filter. some love it some hate it. I'm on the love side. the same will be true on the Medium format side. I've lusted after the 645d/z for ages but to be honest I'd be more liekely to go the fuji rout now because it will suit my preferences in ergonomically.

In any case its a tool, it will be the right one for some people and not for others. as a manufacturer I think Fuji has really nailed some good ideas (the firmware updates they provide are way above and beyond what other brands do for instance)

I'll be looking forward to seeing the actual raw files that are final variants (with my switch to Fuji over the course of a month i tried a few cameras including K3, XE2 and OMD e5 , all three had things i liked the fuji just hit the sweet spot for me. If i was going FF it would be the K-1 without a doubt ( and price wise it's way more viable than medium format of any type)

---------- Post added 20th Jan 2017 at 12:57 ----------

The Fujifilm GFX 50S Review – Portable Beast – jonasrask|photography

Looks pretty dang good to me.

samples are too small to really tell but they look good

[Zygonyx]

Hey guys, a number of your posts relate the "Fuji X engine", but remember the GFX is NOT gonna be X-trans a sensor.
Fuji seems to find too hard and expensive/unproductive to use the X-trans matrix for their cropped MF.

Yet, launch prices that have been announced are veeeeryyy attractive.

I "egoistically" hope to get a cheaper 645Z, soon or late...

And my bet is that Ricoh is preparing a 645 mirrorless with Sony's 100Mpix "full-MF" sensor.
Otherwise, given RI's reported 645Z success, they wouldn't have slept that long on new 645 DSLR lenses... since the DA28-45 is both unfittable for bigger sensor, and already 3 years old...

Yet hard, but exciting time to come !

---

Last edited by Zygonyx; 01-20-2017 at 02:38 PM.

[Rondec]

lightroom and photosjhop, 90% of the time Lightroom does everything i need (and i tend to import with whatever fuji preset i used there are 5 colour and 5 b/w on the XT1 and XE2 (Velvia, Classic Chrome, Astia etc etc) - i then adjust to varying degrees depending on what i want. 10% i need photoshop (Infrared for instance i need PS)
there are wedding guys who made the switch to Fuji apsc. ..
fuji has a distinct look in large part because of their xtrans filter. some love it some hate it. I'm on the love side. the same will be true on the Medium format side. I've lusted after the 645d/z for ages but to be honest I'd be more liekely to go the fuji rout now because it will suit my preferences in ergonomically.

In any case its a tool, it will be the right one for some people and not for others. as a manufacturer I think Fuji has really nailed some good ideas (the firmware updates they provide are way above and beyond what other brands do for instance)

I'll be looking forward to seeing the actual raw files that are final variants (with my switch to Fuji over the course of a month i tried a few cameras including K3, XE2 and OMD e5 , all three had things i liked the fuji just hit the sweet spot for me. If i was going FF it would be the K-1 without a doubt ( and price wise it's way more viable than medium format of any type)

---------- Post added 20th Jan 2017 at 12:57 ----------



samples are too small to really tell but they look good

As Zygonyx says, this is not an X Trans sensor. This is about Fuji taking an existing sensor with Bayer matrix and just slapping their presets on it. The RAW data should be the same and the reality is that if you use lightroom with a 645z and a Fuji GFX, using your own presets and say Nik Effect or Topaz, you should not see one difference between these cameras.

If you are using Lightroom, I don't even know how much input Pentax or Fuji has into the presets that go with a given camera. The K-1 has several that are supposed to mimic in camera settings, but my experience is that they don't really produce exactly the same results as you get in Pentax's Digital Camera Utility. My guess is that Adobe has their engineers guesstimate settings for different cameras out there.

Anyway, I think I come across as not liking this camera, which is far from the case. It is going to be way too expensive for me, but so is the 645z, but I expect its output to be excellent and equalling (not surpassing) the output of the 645z. I just don't really buy all the advertising crap that Fuji puts out to explain how they are better than other brands out there. The fact I like Pentax does not make Fuji, Nikon, Sony, and Canon worthless and in real world shooting, these cameras (assuming same size/generation sensor) are more similar than they are different.

[clackers]

As already stated, this is nonsense. Fuji are increasingly popular and are taking customers from all the other brands, including Pentax.

What's your data, Jonathan?

These say otherwise:

Fujifilm's latest financials show strong sales of Instax products, shrinking sales of digital cameras: Digital Photography Review

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2017q2_001_note.pdf

Revenue in the Imaging division is down 11 percent ... sales of digital cameras are down.

Whatever they're paying Zack Arias and the advertisers, their poor results match those of the other companies.

We have claims that their cameras are successes - but no one is giving us any numbers as evidence.

[eddie1960]

What's your data, Jonathan?



These say otherwise:



Fujifilm's latest financials show strong sales of Instax products, shrinking sales of digital cameras: Digital Photography Review



http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2017q2_001_note.pdf



Revenue in the Imaging division is down 11 percent ... sales of digital cameras are down.



Whatever they're paying Zack Arias and the advertisers, their poor results match those of the other companies.



We have claims that their cameras are successes - but no one is giving us any numbers as evidence.

Imaging solutions is a big area (including film and printing ) e digital camera decline would likely be attributed entirely to point and shoot. They actually specified lens sales and flagship model sales were up
So they are gaining in the profitable side of imaging while taking a hit on the side that is disappearing. Most of their competitors don't cover as broad an area since they aren't in film and print.
Effectively we don't have the drilled down info to know the real story

[clackers]

Most of their competitors don't cover as broad an area since they aren't in film and print.
Effectively we don't have the drilled down info to know the real story

Actually, Eddie, most of their competitors (like Ricoh and Canon) cover broad areas too other than cameras.

Nikon is the one that doesn't.

As for the real story, the Fuji releases are like those of other companies. The reports are deliberately incomplete. Nothing will be false (that would get fines), but misleading is easy to do by omitting key facts and by burying bad figures amongst a larger set of numbers.

[eddie1960]

Actually, Eddie, most of their competitors (like Ricoh and Canon) cover broad areas too other than cameras.



Nikon is the one that doesn't.



As for the real story, the Fuji releases are like those of other companies. The reports are deliberately incomplete. Nothing will be false (that would get fines), but misleading is easy to do by omitting key facts and by burying bad figures amongst a larger set of numbers.

I meant imaging divisions, Ricoh of course has a huge copier division but it wouldn't be under imaging , same with canon
And a drop is to be expected as the point and shoot market continues to disappear. Regardless Fuji is not a major market share , like Pentax they don't need to be they need to be profitable

[clackers]

I meant imaging divisions, Ricoh of course has a huge copier division but it wouldn't be under imaging , same with canon

The point is that to seek finance, most camera companies can amortize against the other profitable operations of the parent company, they don't need to go to a bank.

Hasselblad have found this too hard and are being snapped up by DJI.

Sony have actually forced its camera division to split with the sensor business, giving it the option of selling it off, since its dropping sales was a drag on a potentially expanding business.

As big as Nikon is, it finds itself in an isolated position similar to Hasselblad.

[eddie1960]

The point is that to seek finance, most camera companies can amortize against the other profitable operations of the parent company, they don't need to go to a bank.



Hasselblad have found this too hard and are being snapped up by DJI.



Sony have actually forced its camera division to split with the sensor business, giving it the option of selling it off, since its dropping sales was a drag on a potentially expanding business.



As big as Nikon is, it finds itself in an isolated position similar to Hasselblad.

Yep, the diversity helps, Ricoh is trying hard to differentiate there copier business by offering cloud solutions for instance . The copier business is also going through change
Printers (like the plotter based units from canon) will always have a place

[Jonathan Mac]

As already stated by others, the data is not made available. Even if imaging is making less profit or selling fewer units, that doesn't mean that they aren't taking customers from piruetas companies - the other companies may well be losing even more. My conclusions are based on the massive increase in popularity I see (both online and in the real world) of Fuji products and their quickly expanding range of lenses. They wouldn't be doing that if there weren't sales there to support them. As Fuji gear is very much aimed at enthusiasts rather than beginners, they sell a lot of lenses as enthusiasts are very prone to GAS.