[Fcsnt54]

On the other hand, all that Pentax needs to do to make their lenses "wider" is release a 645 with a full size sensor. That should shut folks up for a little while.

Yes but then you still have the issues of lenses. Also you would get another complaint of the 28-45 lens not being able to be completely usable, and it would limit the wr lenses to only 2.

[MarkJerling]

OK, why this thread is not worth reading.

The author declares "Fuji is winning the game."

SO, what is "the game". It's not defined. You can't tell if Fuji is winning it because we don't know what "the game" is.

According to the OP, it's snakes and ladders Norm. Have a careful look at his post:

.....maybe lots of snakes and ladders.

Jokes aside:

I often wonder why we have these sort of - implied "Pentax is doomed" - sort of posts if for no reason other than sensationalism? Like you, I struggle to see how Fuji is "winning the game". Presumably "the game" is manufacture of cameras people want to own - but I'm guessing here. I know lots of people with Nikon and Canon and Pentax cameras. (Admittedly, most seem to own Nikons and Canons) I even see some with Sony cameras. I've never seen a Fuji camera in the wild. Now I know that's just me, and it's not scientific. But, I'm not convinced Fuji is the brand everyone is buying these days. Perhaps if someone is going to make a statement like that, especially on a Pentax forum, then it would be good if they can back that up with some facts - or at the very least something that often masquerades as facts, namely statistics.

[normhead]

According to the OP, it's snakes and ladders Norm. Have a careful look at his post:



Jokes aside:

I often wonder why we have these sort of - implied "Pentax is doomed" - sort of posts if for no reason other than sensationalism? Like you, I struggle to see how Fuji is "winning the game". Presumably "the game" is manufacture of cameras people want to own - but I'm guessing here. I know lots of people with Nikon and Canon and Pentax cameras. (Admittedly, most seem to own Nikons and Canons) I even see some with Sony cameras. I've never seen a Fuji camera in the wild. Now I know that's just me, and it's not scientific. But, I'm not convinced Fuji is the brand everyone is buying these days. Perhaps if someone is going to make a statement like that, especially on a Pentax forum, then it would be good if they can back that up with some facts - or at the very least something that often masquerades as facts, namely statistics.

Then you get statistics like "me and my brother and this guy we know all bought one, and we all think it's great."

[lytrytyr]

If you aren't going to release the product within 18months, don't put it on the timeline. Stop baiting your customers.

That's exactly what they did recently, when they pulled the macro lens from the Q system roadmap.

[awscreo]

Mechanical video stabilization is coming to KP and K-1.

Tick that one off the #%*+! list.

Is this real?

[MarkJerling]

Is this real?

Yes. See the interview: CP+ 2017 Pentax Interview: Part 1 - CP+ 2017 | PentaxForums.com

[awscreo]

Yes. See the interview: CP+ 2017 Pentax Interview: Part 1 - CP+ 2017 | PentaxForums.com

Great! Thanks for the link

[2351HD]

Post again when they do, we might be interested. No one wants to invest time in a camera system that "might someday" be barely adequate.

Actually, Normhead, Pentax does not even have a "complete" system and is far from it. Lets take a look.

1. They have no ultra wide lens under 21mm. And, even if they go to the 100mp FF chip they still wont as the DFA 35 will not go there.

2. They do not have an EFC Shutter on the 645Z, which is an absolute must for macro work and tele work.

3. No high speed flash sync, nor any leaf shutter lenses. This does not matter to me because I am a hobbyist landscape shooter but it matters a lot to others.

4. They have no "semi-wide" prime lens at 35mm eq focal length. The 45mm is very poor by all counts.

5. The 2 main FA zooms (45-85 and 80-160) leave a lot to be desired, especially sharpness at their longer ends at 85mm and 160mm.

6. They have no wide aperture portrait lens, like a 100-120mm f/2. Once again not important to me but is to others.

7. No EVF. I like both OVF and EVF, but EVF definitely has its advantages in some shooting types, especially in bright sunlight for fine focussing.

How anybody can say that Pentax has a complete system is rubbish, its good but it certainly is not complete.

So within 12 months Fuji will have points 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7. They will not have the longer tele lenses or the ability to go to the full sized MF chip though.

Just some food for thought for you Norm.

[Fcsnt54]

Actually, Normhead, Pentax does not even have a "complete" system and is far from it. Lets take a look.

1. They have no ultra wide lens under 21mm. And, even if they go to the 100mp FF chip they still wont as the DFA 35 will not go there.

2. They do not have an EFC Shutter on the 645Z, which is an absolute must for macro work and tele work.

3. No high speed flash sync, nor any leaf shutter lenses. This does not matter to me because I am a hobbyist landscape shooter but it matters a lot to others.

4. They have no "semi-wide" prime lens at 35mm eq focal length. The 45mm is very poor by all counts.

5. The 2 main FA zooms (45-85 and 80-160) leave a lot to be desired, especially sharpness at their longer ends at 85mm and 160mm.

6. They have no wide aperture portrait lens, like a 100-120mm f/2. Once again not important to me but is to others.

7. No EVF. I like both OVF and EVF, but EVF definitely has its advantages in some shooting types, especially in bright sunlight for fine focussing.

How anybody can say that Pentax has a complete system is rubbish, its good but it certainly is not complete.

So within 12 months Fuji will have points 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7. They will not have the longer tele lenses or the ability to go to the full sized MF chip though.

Just some food for thought for you Norm.

I completely agree, except I think you could leave off number 7 though saying it is more of a subjective point. the EVF is more of a personal preference more then anything. Also their lenses are ahead of pentax saying they are designed for 100mp compared to pentax's lenses are pretty much all designed for film except for the 28-45 (wont work if pentax goes for a larger sensor), the 55mm, 90 mm macro, maybe the DFA 35 (seems like a new coated FA Lens).

[normhead]

Actually, Normhead, Pentax does not even have a "complete" system and is far from it. Lets take a look.

1. They have no ultra wide lens under 21mm. And, even if they go to the 100mp FF chip they still wont as the DFA 35 will not go there.

2. They do not have an EFC Shutter on the 645Z, which is an absolute must for macro work and tele work.

3. No high speed flash sync, nor any leaf shutter lenses. This does not matter to me because I am a hobbyist landscape shooter but it matters a lot to others.

4. They have no "semi-wide" prime lens at 35mm eq focal length. The 45mm is very poor by all counts.

5. The 2 main FA zooms (45-85 and 80-160) leave a lot to be desired, especially sharpness at their longer ends at 85mm and 160mm.

6. They have no wide aperture portrait lens, like a 100-120mm f/2. Once again not important to me but is to others.

7. No EVF. I like both OVF and EVF, but EVF definitely has its advantages in some shooting types, especially in bright sunlight for fine focussing.

How anybody can say that Pentax has a complete system is rubbish, its good but it certainly is not complete.

So within 12 months Fuji will have points 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7. They will not have the longer tele lenses or the ability to go to the full sized MF chip though.

Just some food for thought for you Norm.

Lots of good points but, that being said, tell me when they catch up in user base. You are going on like every thing Fuji has said they will implement will be top notch or help them with market share. It's easy to know the Pentax stuff, it's already out. So you don't know if in 12 months Fuji will have done half of what they have said they will do, or how good the Fuji product will be. That's all conjecture.

So personally, I'm back to "you got squat", give me a heads up when they actually have a working system for sale. Microsoft taught me not to care about what some company says they are going to do.

You are making your living here taking what Fuji says they are going to do, and comparing it to what Pentax did a few years ago. Well ya, the next company into the fray always promises stuff they see lacking in the existing cameras. All, you can say right now is , they have big plans. Good on them, lets see if they can pull it off, I have no horse in this race.

Although I would offer the advice, if you need an MF tomorrow, you better go Pentax,

[paulster]

I completely agree, except I think you could leave off number 7 though saying it is more of a subjective point. the EVF is more of a personal preference more then anything. Also their lenses are ahead of pentax saying they are designed for 100mp compared to pentax's lenses are pretty much all designed for film except for the 28-45 (wont work if pentax goes for a larger sensor), the 55mm, 90 mm macro, maybe the DFA 35 (seems like a new coated FA Lens).

Actually, someone here tried the 28-45 on their 645 film camera and didn't see any vignetting. Given that result and the fact that the 100MP sensor is slightly smaller than 645 film this does look quite promising.

I'm hopeful at least, given the investment I made in the 28-45! Plus it's a wonderful lens.

[Fcsnt54]

Actually, someone here tried the 28-45 on their 645 film camera and didn't see any vignetting. Given that result and the fact that the 100MP sensor is slightly smaller than 645 film this does look quite promising.

I'm hopeful at least, given the investment I made in the 28-45! Plus it's a wonderful lens.

Well i stand corrected then, i might have to look into that lens if it will work on the larger sensor. How is the lens around the 45 mm end?

[paulster]

Well i stand corrected then, i might have to look into that lens if it will work on the larger sensor. How is the lens around the 45 mm end?

It's sharp across the frame and from end to end. It is huge and heavy though. Really huge and heavy. But it fills in everything below the 55mm lens now that the 25mm is just about unobtanium, and has meant I've felt no need to buy the 35mm despite preferring primes.

My concern is that it's an unknown quantity in terms of how it would perform on a full-frame 645 sensor. We have anecdotal evidence that it doesn't vignette (at least obviously), but what that means for corner sharpness on the bigger sensor is anybody's guess.

Let's just say I wouldn't be buying one new at the moment. I'd be looking for a used one if I were considering it, just in case.

[pinholecam]

Fuji is certainly winning the PR game.
I see lots of interest regarding the Fuji than the Pentax 645 system
With the Pentax, most 'pundits' dismissed it as another option over the Leica, Phase, Mamiya, Hasselblad systems, but cheaper.
Another reason often cited is the lack of lenses (1/2 truth) and its supposed inferior optical performance to the others (usually unsubstantiated).
With the Fuji, I get the impression that many are more forgiving, citing the size, the adapted lenses (promise of), the "oh so good" native lenses (even though most have not tired any)


No one knows if a 645 sensor always left on for LV will be really as noise free as on that is on standby (ie. 645Z).
Neither has it been proven to be trouble free with adapted old lenses.
Fuji X-Trans has never shown itself superior vs other makes when it comes to IQ (not for me anyway looking over samples via DPR or ImagingResource), so it remains to be seen if the MF system will be any bit better than whats out there.
At this point, the Fuji still lacks a wide, but interestingly, most are fast to diss the Pentax even when it already has a 28-45 and a 35mm.
There is even the 25/4 readily available on the market even if its OOP.

As for "future proof", it really applies to the body only and not the native lenses (where the bulk of the cost will be )
The short registration distance means that if one day Fuji decides to do something else (focus on Instax for example), the lenses won't mount on anything else (being fully electronic and leaf shutter makes it even harder )


The Fuji is attractive for sure.
Its like Sony A7 system vs the rest of the DSLR world all over again.
Only, this time, the cost of entry will automatically remove most guys who are not willing to spend the money on a MF system.

[surfar]

Fuji X-Trans has never shown itself superior vs other makes

Its not in their MF, its a Bayer