Pentax 67 light leak or processing? Help!!!!

addison11 · 03-16-2017, 05:02 PM

So I recently bought a old Pentax 67, developed some photos, and saw the following issues in attachment 1 & 2. It looks like a mixture of some dark bands and a clear light leak peering out of the middle right side. There were some frames in the rolls which did not show this anomaly, but a majority had the issue.

Took the camera to a local repair shop, the owner fixed ALL light seals.

Brought the camera out a week later and shot the last image, same issue, light and some banding on the right side, not as strong though.

Could this be a issue with loading and unloading the film? Maybe it could be development issue? I trust the camera repair shop.

Please help!!!!

Attached Images

petrakka · 03-16-2017, 06:17 PM

The bands look like a scanning issue, honestly - these are pretty low quality, overly contrasty scans and look like some results you can get out of the auto setting on the epsons - can you see those bands on the negative when looked at through a loupe? Sometimes a bad lab can fuss up negatives, but it usually is a long scratch. I could be wrong, but whenever I've had that banding it ended up being a scanning issue.

The light leaks look like that, but can be from the camera or can be from film that isn't properly spooled or handled in processing. Hard to tell unless it repeats consistently.

The second and third photos are interesting to me though, just as photos (well, once you get a good scan) - my guess is you been looking at some Gregory Halpern or something?

addison11 · 03-16-2017, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by petrakka

The bands look like a scanning issue, honestly - these are pretty low quality, overly contrasty scans and look like some results you can get out of the auto setting on the epsons - can you see those bands on the negative when looked at through a loupe? Sometimes a bad lab can fuss up negatives, but it usually is a long scratch. I could be wrong, but whenever I've had that banding it ended up being a scanning issue.

The light leaks look like that, but can be from the camera or can be from film that isn't properly spooled or handled in processing. Hard to tell unless it repeats consistently.

The second and third photos are interesting to me though, just as photos (well, once you get a good scan) - my guess is you been looking at some Gregory Halpern or something?

Haha thanks Petrakka,

see the attached image for a view of the negative, you can clearly see some banding as well as the leak. A friend mentioned it might be the pressure plate? Could this be the case?

As for the scans, I'm using an epson v700 and Silverfast SE. Do you know of a better way to get better scans from an epson let me know! I dont have the money to spend on an Imacon!

Silent Street · 03-16-2017, 07:34 PM

Light piping at the edge(s) of the film during loading or unloading can give rise to these results. But poor processing of the film (drying) is the first thing that comes to mind with those bands, the second being damage caused by the cumulative effects of x-ray exposure; has your film been through any x-ray checkpoints?

When loading film, apply index and third finger in a firm V shape against the ends of the roll of the film in the chamber, and pull out the leader and thread it, while maintaining that pressure. Similarly, unloading the film should be done out of sunlight; open the back, wind the film lever until the small end-of-roll tab appears and, while applying the same pressure to the roll outlined above, pull the tape over the roll and secure it. Pull down the ring on the base of the camera and holding the end-of-roll tape, lever the roll out.

I cannot implicate the Epson V700 or V750 in this because I scan with the Epson and have never had this issue. I would advise however that you stick with the native Epson scanning software for the best basic results and follow on any needed work in post e.g. Lightroom.

stevebrot · 03-16-2017, 10:20 PM

The bands are present on the negative and don't extend past the frame window. My vote is a problem with processing. It appears to be uneven development. If the roll was lab processed, they should refund you and and replace the film too.

Steve

**Alex645** · 03-16-2017, 10:27 PM

Are you processing your own C41 by hand or are you taking it to a lab?

If DIY: What tank system and method of agitation? How fresh are the chems and how precise are you getting the temp and time?

If lab, and they are using a processor: I suspect itʻs dirty rollers which can cause parallel streaks. Back in the day when I managed a lab, it was a drag, but we dumped our chems weekly, and scrubbed the racks, rollers, and tanks. The problem usually is in the blix.

cooltouch · 03-16-2017, 10:31 PM

I got similar banding with a black&white roll I developed in a tank with a twister spindle for agitation, which I used rather than inverting the tank. I put the question out to the folks over at apug as to why I was having the problem and several of them responded that I had probably gotten a bit too aggressive with my spinning the film. Next time I developed a roll (and ever since), I've inverted it and I've never had the problem again. So I too think something in the developing process might not have been done right.

Last edited by cooltouch; 03-16-2017 at 11:05 PM.

**Alex645** · 03-16-2017, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by cooltouch

I got similar banding with a black&white roll I developed in a tank with a twister spindle for agitation, which I used rather than inverting the tank. I put the question out to the folks over at apug as to why I was having the problem and several of them responded that I had probably gotten a bit to aggressive with my spinning the film. Next time I developed a roll (and ever since), I've inverted it and I've never had the problem again. So I too think something in the developing process might not have been done right.

Was that with 120 film or with 35mm? I know with 35mm, agitating by twisting too vigorously can cause turbulence in through the sprocket holes, and youʻll get that issue, but with 120 and no holes, and in the direction of the lines?

Did OP hand process, and if so with inversion method or with agitator stick?

cooltouch · 03-17-2017, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by Alex645

Was that with 120 film or with 35mm? I know with 35mm, agitating by twisting too vigorously can cause turbulence in through the sprocket holes, and youʻll get that issue, but with 120 and no holes, and in the direction of the lines?

Did OP hand process, and if so with inversion method or with agitator stick?

It was with 120 film, shot with a Yashica Mat 124. One respondent at Apug mentioned that he'd had the same problem with a twirly-thing tank, but only with 120 film.

I'll wait for the OP's response to your last question.

hooverfocus · 03-17-2017, 04:26 AM

Couldn't it be a curtain problem? Unless it's been machine processed, those things are far too regular...

Ontarian50 · 03-17-2017, 08:10 AM

You can rule out light leaks because the stripes are dark - not light.

Also, since the negs are in portrait format, the bands are running horizontally with the film transport - so you can rule out shutter issues as well.

The posts pointing to film development issues are likely spot on.

addison11 · 03-17-2017, 08:41 AM

Thank you all for your help, looking back, I started using a new lab which wasn't as expensive, its most likely the issue for the banding, which is super unfortunate

Does anyone know of a way in photoshop to remove these bands? the patch tool seems too cumbersome to get every one out?

hooverfocus · 03-17-2017, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Ontarian50

You can rule out light leaks because the stripes are dark - not light.

Also, since the negs are in portrait format, the bands are running horizontally with the film transport - so you can rule out shutter issues as well.

The posts pointing to film development issues are likely spot on.

Reason why I suggested the curtain is it travels horizontally, which is consistent with the direction of the streaks. Apparently with rubberised curtains dark streaks can be caused by residues when things start falling apart, they become particularly visible on fast shutter speeds. Here they talk about it and here is an example. Then again, it shouldn't be the case with the 67 as it's not rubberised but checking it to rule it out shouldn't be too much of an effort. If it's not that, it's most likely a processing problem.

EDIT: I stand corrected in so far as the ease of checking the curtain is concerned. If the 67 is anything like the 6x7, operating it with the back open is a bit of a problem. I just brought mine out… I had forgotten how much of a pain that was.

Ontarian50 · 03-17-2017, 10:34 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by hooverfocus

Reason why I suggested the curtain is it travels horizontally, which is consistent with the direction of the streaks.

True. Old shutter curtains can get pinholes in them, but then the marks would be bright streaks, not dark.

Usually banding associated with shutter problems comes from vibrations in the shutter speeds (sticky, not properly lubricated) - but those bands would be top-to-bottom on the image, and not horizontal.

I'm still going with poor film processing.

**Alex645** · 03-17-2017, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by addison11

Thank you all for your help, looking back, I started using a new lab which wasn't as expensive, its most likely the issue for the banding, which is super unfortunate

Does anyone know of a way in photoshop to remove these bands? the patch tool seems too cumbersome to get every one out?

I had a new lab ruin my negs in more ways than one. I don't know of any shortcuts other than the patiently using the heal brush tool and or clone stamp. Just patiently work over one area and move methodically through the rest. Then go back and work on more of the details you may have missed. I had one shot great depth of field shot with sugar cane and sky, but the sky was soooo bad I ended up using gaussian blur on my sky to hide the mess. The end result looked great, but it was a lot of editing.

03-16-2017, 05:02 PM	#1
addison11 New Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 3	Pentax 67 light leak or processing? Help!!!! So I recently bought a old Pentax 67, developed some photos, and saw the following issues in attachment 1 & 2. It looks like a mixture of some dark bands and a clear light leak peering out of the middle right side. There were some frames in the rolls which did not show this anomaly, but a majority had the issue. Took the camera to a local repair shop, the owner fixed ALL light seals. Brought the camera out a week later and shot the last image, same issue, light and some banding on the right side, not as strong though. Could this be a issue with loading and unloading the film? Maybe it could be development issue? I trust the camera repair shop. Please help!!!! Attached Images

03-17-2017, 09:51 AM	#13
hooverfocus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 210	Originally posted by Ontarian50 You can rule out light leaks because the stripes are dark - not light. Also, since the negs are in portrait format, the bands are running horizontally with the film transport - so you can rule out shutter issues as well. The posts pointing to film development issues are likely spot on. Reason why I suggested the curtain is it travels horizontally, which is consistent with the direction of the streaks. Apparently with rubberised curtains dark streaks can be caused by residues when things start falling apart, they become particularly visible on fast shutter speeds. Here they talk about it and here is an example. Then again, it shouldn't be the case with the 67 as it's not rubberised but checking it to rule it out shouldn't be too much of an effort. If it's not that, it's most likely a processing problem. EDIT: I stand corrected in so far as the ease of checking the curtain is concerned. If the 67 is anything like the 6x7, operating it with the back open is a bit of a problem. I just brought mine out… I had forgotten how much of a pain that was. Last edited by hooverfocus; 03-17-2017 at 10:09 AM. Reason: update info

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03-16-2017, 06:17 PM	#2
petrakka Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Chicago Posts: 91	The bands look like a scanning issue, honestly - these are pretty low quality, overly contrasty scans and look like some results you can get out of the auto setting on the epsons - can you see those bands on the negative when looked at through a loupe? Sometimes a bad lab can fuss up negatives, but it usually is a long scratch. I could be wrong, but whenever I've had that banding it ended up being a scanning issue. The light leaks look like that, but can be from the camera or can be from film that isn't properly spooled or handled in processing. Hard to tell unless it repeats consistently. The second and third photos are interesting to me though, just as photos (well, once you get a good scan) - my guess is you been looking at some Gregory Halpern or something?

03-16-2017, 07:34 PM	#4
Silent Street Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Castlemaine, Victoria, AUS Photos: Albums Posts: 1,151	Light piping at the edge(s) of the film during loading or unloading can give rise to these results. But poor processing of the film (drying) is the first thing that comes to mind with those bands, the second being damage caused by the cumulative effects of x-ray exposure; has your film been through any x-ray checkpoints? When loading film, apply index and third finger in a firm V shape against the ends of the roll of the film in the chamber, and pull out the leader and thread it, while maintaining that pressure. Similarly, unloading the film should be done out of sunlight; open the back, wind the film lever until the small end-of-roll tab appears and, while applying the same pressure to the roll outlined above, pull the tape over the roll and secure it. Pull down the ring on the base of the camera and holding the end-of-roll tape, lever the roll out. I cannot implicate the Epson V700 or V750 in this because I scan with the Epson and have never had this issue. I would advise however that you stick with the native Epson scanning software for the best basic results and follow on any needed work in post e.g. Lightroom.

03-16-2017, 10:20 PM	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	The bands are present on the negative and don't extend past the frame window. My vote is a problem with processing. It appears to be uneven development. If the roll was lab processed, they should refund you and and replace the film too. Steve

03-16-2017, 10:27 PM	#6
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Are you processing your own C41 by hand or are you taking it to a lab? If DIY: What tank system and method of agitation? How fresh are the chems and how precise are you getting the temp and time? If lab, and they are using a processor: I suspect itʻs dirty rollers which can cause parallel streaks. Back in the day when I managed a lab, it was a drag, but we dumped our chems weekly, and scrubbed the racks, rollers, and tanks. The problem usually is in the blix.

03-16-2017, 10:31 PM	#7
cooltouch Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Houston, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 982	I got similar banding with a black&white roll I developed in a tank with a twister spindle for agitation, which I used rather than inverting the tank. I put the question out to the folks over at apug as to why I was having the problem and several of them responded that I had probably gotten a bit too aggressive with my spinning the film. Next time I developed a roll (and ever since), I've inverted it and I've never had the problem again. So I too think something in the developing process might not have been done right. Last edited by cooltouch; 03-16-2017 at 11:05 PM.

03-16-2017, 10:54 PM	#8
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by cooltouch I got similar banding with a black&white roll I developed in a tank with a twister spindle for agitation, which I used rather than inverting the tank. I put the question out to the folks over at apug as to why I was having the problem and several of them responded that I had probably gotten a bit to aggressive with my spinning the film. Next time I developed a roll (and ever since), I've inverted it and I've never had the problem again. So I too think something in the developing process might not have been done right. Was that with 120 film or with 35mm? I know with 35mm, agitating by twisting too vigorously can cause turbulence in through the sprocket holes, and youʻll get that issue, but with 120 and no holes, and in the direction of the lines? Did OP hand process, and if so with inversion method or with agitator stick?

03-17-2017, 01:55 AM	#9
cooltouch Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Houston, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 982	Originally posted by Alex645 Was that with 120 film or with 35mm? I know with 35mm, agitating by twisting too vigorously can cause turbulence in through the sprocket holes, and youʻll get that issue, but with 120 and no holes, and in the direction of the lines? Did OP hand process, and if so with inversion method or with agitator stick? It was with 120 film, shot with a Yashica Mat 124. One respondent at Apug mentioned that he'd had the same problem with a twirly-thing tank, but only with 120 film. I'll wait for the OP's response to your last question.

03-17-2017, 04:26 AM	#10
hooverfocus Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 210	Couldn't it be a curtain problem? Unless it's been machine processed, those things are far too regular...

03-17-2017, 08:10 AM	#11
Ontarian50 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 530	You can rule out light leaks because the stripes are dark - not light. Also, since the negs are in portrait format, the bands are running horizontally with the film transport - so you can rule out shutter issues as well. The posts pointing to film development issues are likely spot on.

03-17-2017, 08:41 AM	#12
addison11 New Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 3 Original Poster	Thank you all for your help, looking back, I started using a new lab which wasn't as expensive, its most likely the issue for the banding, which is super unfortunate Does anyone know of a way in photoshop to remove these bands? the patch tool seems too cumbersome to get every one out?

03-17-2017, 10:34 AM - 2 Likes	#14
Ontarian50 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 530	Originally posted by hooverfocus Reason why I suggested the curtain is it travels horizontally, which is consistent with the direction of the streaks. True. Old shutter curtains can get pinholes in them, but then the marks would be bright streaks, not dark. Usually banding associated with shutter problems comes from vibrations in the shutter speeds (sticky, not properly lubricated) - but those bands would be top-to-bottom on the image, and not horizontal. I'm still going with poor film processing.

03-17-2017, 06:39 PM	#15
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by addison11 Thank you all for your help, looking back, I started using a new lab which wasn't as expensive, its most likely the issue for the banding, which is super unfortunate Does anyone know of a way in photoshop to remove these bands? the patch tool seems too cumbersome to get every one out? I had a new lab ruin my negs in more ways than one. I don't know of any shortcuts other than the patiently using the heal brush tool and or clone stamp. Just patiently work over one area and move methodically through the rest. Then go back and work on more of the details you may have missed. I had one shot great depth of field shot with sugar cane and sky, but the sky was soooo bad I ended up using gaussian blur on my sky to hide the mess. The end result looked great, but it was a lot of editing.